Marking Q re: carrier-based A6M circa late summer/autumn 1943

[Viking1066]

The rest of the files begin in 1944.

 

[andrewgeorge]

The rest of the files begin in 1944.

I've seen those they are excellent! The authors work is tremendous. That's going to be the basis for the paint job. The last detail is command stripes — were they used? full length of tail, or matching length of text?

 

[Viking1066]

A nice set of pics. However the lack of the white outline of the Hinomaru may indicate the Mitsubishi made Zero but not the Nakajima one. Secondly I'm not sure if these are of the new camouflage introduced in the Spring of 1943. The tops were painted green while the undersides stayed of the grey.. The difference between the Nakajima and Mitsubishi camo was the way of applying of the grey colour at fuselage sides of the tail section. The Nakajima started the colour from the vertical stabilizer undersides while the Mitsubishi just a narrow part at the fuselage bottom. IMHO these pics look like being taken in 1942.

Here the Nakajima-built A6M2 model 21 just dated on August 1942 and IJN Junyo carrier .. looking similar ...

View attachment 769690

Source is Sommerville via www.j-aircraft.com sorry I forget about that. Wife is making me hurry up.

 

[andrewgeorge]

I pulled a couple shots from an NHK newsreel from winter 1944 that shows a fleet deployment that looks an awful lot like it might have been one of Koga's sorties over to the Marshall Islands in fall 1943. Footage is from a carrier deck (Zuikaku? Shōkaku?) and shows two other carriers that might well be the sister ship and Zuiho, as well as some major surface units:

Unfortunately no aircraft though.

 

[Viking1066]

I've seen those they are excellent! That's going to be basis

Glad to help. I have some other books, but I am being rushed. I do have the Cea books, but I have found two errors on markings, which isn't a good thing considering he says he is an expert on the subject.

 

[Viking1066]

Wow those are great shots—from a newsreel I gather?

My understanding is that summer 1943 the navy went to two-tone green/grey paint and removed fuselage stripes from planes.

That appears to be correct. The one I see from the IJN Hiyo has one in March, but it's gone in April.

 

[andrewgeorge]

That appears to be correct. The one I see from the IJN Hiyo has one in March, but it's gone in April.

I *think* Hiyo's planes were deployed to land bases in the Solomons for a big air offensive in April 1943, so they might have been temporarily field-camouflaged.

 

[Wurger]

I *think* Hiyo's planes were deployed to land bases in the Solomons for a big air offensive in April 1943, so they might have been temporarily field-camouflaged.

That's very possible. Here is a taking off Zero from the Rabaul dated on the April 1943. The field applied green tops can be noticed.

the source: the net.

 

[SaparotRob]

A nice set of pics. However the lack of the white outline of the Hinomaru may indicate the Mitsubishi made Zero but not the Nakajima one. Secondly I'm not sure if these are of the new camouflage introduced in the Spring of 1943. The tops were painted green while the undersides stayed of the grey.. The difference between the Nakajima and Mitsubishi camo was the way of applying of the grey colour at fuselage sides of the tail section. The Nakajima started the colour from the vertical stabilizer undersides while the Mitsubishi just a narrow part at the fuselage bottom. IMHO these pics look like being taken in 1942.

Would you have color illustrations showing the differences?

 

[Donivanp]

Learning something new seems like every day here.

 

[andrewgeorge]

Would you have color illustrations showing the differences?

I think I do somewhere—I can clarify I think in the meantime. The line between the dark top color and the light belly color runs along the fuselage from the trailing edge of the wing root. On the Nakajima factory-camouflaged planes the line curves up higher on the fuselage to meet the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. On the Mitsubishi planes it stays low.

 

[Wurger]

Would you have color illustrations showing the differences?

Here ...

The Nakajima factory camo type ...

The Mitsubishi factory camo variant ...

the pic source: the net.

 

[SaparotRob]

Beautiful shots!
In the top photo, the A6M in the background has the "Nakajima camo" and white circle around the Hinomaru. Is this correct?

Would the white outline indicate Mitsubishi?

 

[Wurger]

Beautiful shots!
In the top photo, the A6M in the background has the "Nakajima camo" and white circle around the Hinomaru. Is this correct?

Would the white outline indicate Mitsubishi?

As memo serves the Hinomaru with the white outline was applied by the Nakajima factory to distinguish their Zeros from the Mitsubishu manufacturer built kites. But it was done before the Green/Light Grey camouflage was intorduced in the beginning of the 1943. Soon as the new camo was introduced also the Mitsubishi started applying the white circle around the Japanese National marking. So it is not possible to say by what factory the Zero was made. Additionally the white outline was overpainted with the green or black by the maintenance crews at the field mostly. As a result the way the demarcation line of the camo colours was running can give a tip. But same as with the Luftwaffe camouflages and colours I have to say it can be the general statement only. Contrary to the A6M5, in case of the A6M2, to determine which factory the plane was manufactured by, it would be good to know its serial number.

the source: the net.

 

[Viking1066]

As memo serves the Hinomaru with the white outline was applied by the Nakajima factory to distinguish their Zeros from the Mitsubishu manufacturer built kites. But it was done before the Green/Light Grey camouflage was intorduced in the beginning of the 1943. Soon as the new camo was introduced also the Mitsubishi started applying the white circle around the Japanese National marking. So it is not possible to say by what factory the Zero was made. Additionally the white outline was overpainted with the green or black by the maintenance crews at the field mostly. As a result the way the demarcation line of the camo colours was running can give a tip. But same as with the Luftwaffe camouflages and colours I have to say it can be the general statement only. Contrary to the A6M5, in case of the A6M2, to determine which factory the plane was manufactured by, it would be good to know its serial number.

View attachment 769714
the source: the net.

Very important information. Thank you!