MIG 15 (1 Viewer)

 
I thought it was a reverse engineered RR Nene centrifugal engine !

The first batch of MiG-15's had genuine RR Nene engines built by RR in Britain.

The second batch of MiG-15's had licence built RR Nene engines

The remaining batches of MiG-15's had the Russian VK-1 engines derived from the Nene and fitting in the same space. The VK-1 has more mass air flow, more power and lasts four times as long between HSI's 300 hrs instead of 75 hrs.
 
Hello, i do not find a MIG 15 thread. I wanted to ask if anyone has an ideea on where to find MIG 15 manufacturing drawings/blueprints. Like rudder, canopy structure, landing gear doors etc.
Thanks

I posted my English language MiG-15 manuals (printed in Moscow) some time back on this forum. Search the forum and you will find them.

I cannot repost them as they are among the hundreds of manuals I lost with my computer crash.
 
Well guys initially i was asking for drawings (original ''copies'') or blueprints. Arguing might get some nice tech details... Anyone in Poland? Or Russia?
Thank you.
I'm sorry to see that your thread has been well-and-truly hijacked. Also that some folks don't understand what blueprints (or manufacturing drawings) are. It's the same when you ask for primary source data and get the reply "I googled it".

However I think MiTasol's manuals may help but I also hope you get some genuine responses elsewhere. It might be worth posting a new thread to avoid the noise presented here.
 
The first batch of MiG-15's had genuine RR Nene engines built by RR in Britain.
Could you please cite your source? As far as I know, the English-built Nene engines were installed exclusively on prototype aircraft. Production MiG-15s were already equipped with Soviet-built RD-45F engines.
The second batch of MiG-15's had licence built RR Nene engines
All Soviet copies of the Nene were produced in violation of the licensing agreement.
 
I'm sorry to see that your thread has been well-and-truly hijacked. Also that some folks don't understand what blueprints (or manufacturing drawings) are. It's the same when you ask for primary source data and get the reply "I googled it".
Many people understand perfectly well what "assembly blueprints" are. But they also realize that those who possess such blueprints (and I suspect there are very few of them) are unlikely to scan them just to share with enthusiasts. Illustrations from technical manuals are not blueprints. I can refer to a couple of issues of Russian-language aviation magazines that contain MiG-15 drawings (but not blueprints!), but they're unlikely to be suitable for the purposes of the topic starter.
 
Could you please cite your source? As far as I know, the English-built Nene engines were installed exclusively on prototype aircraft. Production MiG-15s were already equipped with Soviet-built RD-45F engines.
The reason I did not quote the number of RR built engines is because I cannot remember how many. Flight and Aeroplane magazines of the day had numerous articles about RR supplying the engines as both the supply and the licence agreement were political hot potatod.

All Soviet copies of the Nene were produced in violation of the licensing agreement.
I did not know that. If you are referring to the VK-1 as a copy then that is not technically correct. It was developed from the RD-45 but the changes were significant and only a small percentage of parts MAY have been interchangeable. I have worked on both.
 
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The reason I did not quote the number of RR built engines is because I cannot remember how many.
55. All of them were used either reverse engineering or to be installed on various prototypes - including Lavochkin and Tupolev aircraft.
I did not know that. If you are referring to the VK-1 as a copy
No, I'm not. I am referring to the RD-45 and RD-45F models, which were copies, but no licensing agreement was signed. The British sold only 55 finished engines on the condition that they not be used for military purposes.
 
55. All of them were used either reverse engineering or to be installed on various prototypes - including Lavochkin and Tupolev aircraft.

No, I'm not. I am referring to the RD-45 and RD-45F models, which were copies, but no licensing agreement was signed. The British sold only 55 finished engines on the condition that they not be used for military purposes.


I was not aware of that. From the press of the time the British Government gave the Russian Government a licence. That may have been a press error naturally.
 
From the press of the time the British Government gave the Russian Government a licence.
I believe this is a common misconception. By the time the Soviets purchased the British engines, they had already obtained all the relevant documentation through spies. The Party leadership deemed the license agreement impractical.
 
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The number of engines at 55 is new information, as most older English language material (books/magazines) indicated 25 engines transferred. I had wondered how they built their own so quickly, however with 55 to be used as well as examined, it now makes sense.
 
Interesting Story about a Russian Delegation visit to RR 1946.
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Very interesting.

The turbine material used in the VK-1 is markedly better than that used on the Nenes.

VK-1 turbines with almost 2,000 hours time in service (TIS) look like Nene blades with 75 hours TIS. Nene blades at 300 hours (overhaul time) are markedly eroded yet the 2,00 hour VK-1 blades look new.
 
Interesting Story about a Russian Delegation visit to RR 1946.View attachment 901625View attachment 901626View attachment 901627
Most likely, it's just a nice legend. The composition of the alloy wasn't much of a secret; the temperature control during manufacturing was far more important - in particular, the cooling process - and it's hardly possible to reconstruct those conditions based on metal chips. With an electron microscope equipped with EDX, it might be possible to determine certain details - e.g., the composition and size of the crystalline phases. Based on those, in principle, some conclusions about the cooling conditions could be drawn, but that's possible now, not in 1946.
 
Very interesting.

The turbine material used in the VK-1 is markedly better than that used on the Nenes.

VK-1 turbines with almost 2,000 hours time in service (TIS) look like Nene blades with 75 hours TIS. Nene blades at 300 hours (overhaul time) are markedly eroded yet the 2,00 hour VK-1 blades look new.
IIRC, the VK-1 turbine blades were thicker than those of the Nene. In addition, Soviet researchers and engineers spent a considerable amount of time and effort optimizing the temperature conditions during the manufacture of the blades.
 
I've heard the sticky shoe story as well, but another version that's probably more credible that I've heard is that the problem was the Soviets needed to know the raw untempered materials, whose composition they couldn't get from the finished product the Brits had supplied them with. The story goes that while visiting a British plant where the engine was being made, one of the Russians pocketed an untempered compressor blade, and from that the exact composition needed to reverse-engineer the engine was obtained.

Animarchy covers the story somewhere in this video:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-s7AMfM0Uk
 
I've heard the sticky shoe story as well, but another version that's probably more credible that I've heard is that the problem was the Soviets needed to know the raw untempered materials, whose composition they couldn't get from the finished product the Brits had supplied them
I find it hard to imagine that the chemical composition changed significantly during heat treatment; the size and shape of the alloy's grains were much more important - both of these parameters largely determine the material's strength.
 

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