Mosquito "Mickey" failure?

[Donald Johnson]

Does anyone have more on this? It was during a Mickey mission that Vance Chipman was shot down.

"Mickey ships" were specially-modified Mosquitos that were equipped with the H2X radar set used on the B-17 Flying Fortress. A bulged nose housing held the H2X scanner with the amplifier and electronics crammed in the nose and bomb bay. The radar scope itself, though, was in the rear fuselage. Before the approach to the target, the observer had to climb over the equipment in the bomb bay and into the rear fuselage where he either photographed the radar display or filmed it with a movie camera. The purpose of the "Mickey ships" was to get radar navigation images of the approaches to German targets. These images would be then correlated with maps to provide the B-17 navigators with poor-weather approaches to high-priority targets in Germany.

 

[Crimea_River]

There was no way for the observer to "climb over equipment in the bomb bay to get the rear" of a Mosquito. That much, at least, is bogus.

 

[gumbyk]

There was no way for the observer to "climb over equipment in the bomb bay to get the rear" of a Mosquito. That much, at least, is bogus.

I was about to post that/ there's less than a foot gap between the top of the wing spar and the top of the fuselage, and no access to the bomb bay from the cockpit.

 

[Donald Johnson]

There was no way for the observer to "climb over equipment in the bomb bay to get the rear" of a Mosquito. That much, at least, is bogus.

Tails Through Time

 

[GrauGeist]

Tails Through Time

You posted a link to a blog.
I can provide quite a few links to blogs about UFOs, by the way.

When dealing with historical information exchange, it's usually a good idea to use peer-reviewed information as a source...

 

[buffnut453]

Yeah...that blog entry is nonsense. The comment about bailing out through the bomb bay is clearly ridiculous given that there was no access to the bomb bay from the interior of the aircraft. Also, why go clambering over equipment when all Mosquito variants had an escape panel in the cockpit canopy immediately over the navigator's head?

 

[Dana Bell]

The R/O entered the aft fuselage via the rear access hatch prior to takeoff. Chipman (with the mustache) and Cannon were shot down in NS677 on 1 November 1944 - I'm not certain that the aircraft was the same as Chip's Chariot seen here.

It seems the German nightfighters were able to home in on the H2X signals for an easy kill. My understanding is that Cannon had trouble getting out of the aft fuselage and had a grudge against Chipman for some time after.

There were only a handfull of Mickey machines - here's MM311, one of the first lost (shot down in August 1944).

Cheers,



Dana

 

[Donald Johnson]

You posted a link to a blog.
I can provide quite a few links to blogs about UFOs, by the way.

When dealing with historical information exchange, it's usually a good idea to use peer-reviewed information as a source...

I'm attempting to gather information to write a book about Renee's Uncle Chippy. This was top secret stuff at the time, so where do I look to cross-reference it?

Vance Chipman is easily as colorful as Pappy Boyington. I have his basic biography, but most need verification.

 

[Crimea_River]

Many reputable authors and researchers hand out here: Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Powered by vBulletin

It would be a good place to get leads and check facts.

 

[Donald Johnson]

Many reputable authors and researchers hand out here: Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Powered by vBulletin

It would be a good place to get leads and check facts.

Registration was disabled here. Now what?

 

[Donald Johnson]

The R/O entered the aft fuselage via the rear access hatch prior to takeoff. Chipman (with the mustache) and Cannon were shot down in NS677 on 1 November 1944 - I'm not certain that the aircraft was the same as Chip's Chariot seen here.
View attachment 619873
It seems the German nightfighters were able to home in on the H2X signals for an easy kill. My understanding is that Cannon had trouble getting out of the aft fuselage and had a grudge against Chipman for some time after.

There were only a handfull of Mickey machines - here's MM311, one of the first lost (shot down in August 1944).

View attachment 619874

Cheers,



Dana

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi Donald,

My understanding is that Chipman didn't attend the 25th BG (R) reunions, which is a shame. Everyone remembered him, most like him. Apparently the monkey peed on everyone's bunks; Elliot Roosevelt seems to have had a problem with Chipman due to some incident with a fire extinguisher.

All that said, get a copy of the 25th BG microfilm history from Maxwell AFB, Alabama. There's a general history, list of all personnel, and mission details and maps for every mission flown by the unit. (The provisional 802nd Recon Group is included too.) Other than the anecdotes, most details will be there.

I don't know if any of the reunion group are still around. Most of the guys I was in contact with back in the 1970s have passed. Good luck with your quest - I'd love to see the final results!

Cheers,



Dana

 

[nuuumannn]

Just to reduce confusion about the Mickey set in the USAAF Mossies; it was located in the rear fuselage, but once the RO was in there he wasn't getting anywhere else in the aeroplane. He certainly couldn't transit from the back to the front. That simply wasn't possible in a Mosquito. Only six Mickey set equipped Mossies entered USAAF service to begin with; the radar set tended to overload the Mosquito's electrical system and they had a 50% loss rate. 12 more were modified, but one was shot down inadvertently by a P-47.

This is the space aft of the observer's seat, from where this photo was taken. That's the pilot's seat armour to the right. Below the shelf area was the forward bomb bay.

TV959 | warbirds (wixsite.com)

This image was taken inside the rear fuselage door. The shelf where the battery is is the roof of the bomb bay. There is a step and a dividing wall at the bay where the battery is located, preventing further access. Beyond is strengthening members for the wings, but there is certainly no way a man can crawl into it.

TV959 | warbirds (wixsite.com)

This shows the location of the rear access door to the rear fuselage, illustrating the confined space.

TV959 | warbirds (wixsite.com)

This is a Mosquito's bomb bay, a bulged one for carrying big bombs. Note the lower after step in the bay roof, that is what the battery sits on, seen in the previous image. There is no access to the bomb bay from the aeroplane interior.

TA634 | warbirds (wixsite.com)

 

[Donald Johnson]

Just to reduce confusion about the Mickey set in the USAAF Mossies; it was located in the rear fuselage, but once the RO was in there he wasn't getting anywhere else in the aeroplane. He certainly couldn't transit from the back to the front. That simply wasn't possible in a Mosquito. Only six Mickey set equipped Mossies entered USAAF service to begin with; the radar set tended to overload the Mosquito's electrical system and they had a 50% loss rate. 12 more were modified, but one was shot down inadvertently by a P-47.

This is the space aft of the observer's seat, from where this photo was taken. That's the pilot's seat armour to the right. Below the shelf area was the forward bomb bay.

TV959 | warbirds (wixsite.com)

This image was taken inside the rear fuselage door. The shelf where the battery is is the roof of the bomb bay. There is a step and a dividing wall at the bay where the battery is located, preventing further access. Beyond is strengthening members for the wings, but there is certainly no way a man can crawl into it.

TV959 | warbirds (wixsite.com)

This shows the location of the rear access door to the rear fuselage, illustrating the confined space.

TV959 | warbirds (wixsite.com)

This is a Mosquito's bomb bay, a bulged one for carrying big bombs. Note the lower after step in the bay roof, that is what the battery sits on, seen in the previous image. There is no access to the bomb bay from the aeroplane interior.

TA634 | warbirds (wixsite.com)

I'm attempting to gather more on this since Vance Chipman's "Chip's Chariot" was shot with one. I read that only 27% of what they shot was even usable and that Elliott Roosevlt wanted the project discontinued. Can I find more on this?