New Me 309 Book by Calum Douglas and Dan Sharp

[rprosperi]

I have not seen this posted here, so...

Moton's Books (UK) has announced "Messerschmitt Me 309 Development & Politics", By Dan Sharp & Calum E Douglas, 200-page hardcover, due in October.

Details are here, including taking pre-orders...

Messerschmitt Me 309 Development & Politics | at Mortons Books

www.mortonsbooks.co.uk

I heard earlier this book may be coming from a different publisher, but looks like Morton's is it, and they boldly include a date.

I'm truly looking forward to this, I've long wanted to know more about the 309, beyond the same 5-6 photos we've all seen dozens of times, and the summary that since it wasn't much better than the current 109G, they cancelled it. The title clearly implies political manipulations and it will be good to read the real back story. Looking forward to the book!

@Calum / Dan - Can you share any other comments on the contents??

 

[MiTasol]

Thanks for heads up on that - looks like it is now a December book and Morton's are too expensive on shipping so I looked up Amazon Aus and then Amazon US - I am getting mine from the US. Like the kindle books recently the US price is far better than the non US price.

Amazon Australia $120.57 - Morton's is cheaper, even with the high postage

Amazon USA US$28.74 = AU$44.55 plus postage etc totalled AU$75.05

Booktopia Aus has it for $76.25 plus shipping

 

[bendel_boy]

Anyone know what is going on with this book?
First to be delivered early November - then late December - early Jan - late Feb - now April.

Has it been printed in Singapore/China and hit by shipping difficulties?

 

[tomo pauk]

Anyone know what is going on with this book?

Both authors frequent on this forum: link
They are also the the twitter.

 

[BOBO]

Both authors frequent on this forum: link
They are also the the twitter.

Yes, I ordered this book from my dealer. I returned it yesterday. Absolutely disappointing, just a few new, interesting photos. Cost of the book: €50, thin art paper, see-through, many graphics/documents too small, nothing recognizable, shadowed.
Luftwaffe 46 What if G color graphics and the source information from his own "office". What a shame about the financial expense!

It's annoying what awaits you there, lengthy texts, poor typography, questionable sources... what a pity!

 

[Engineman]

Yes, I ordered this book from my dealer. I returned it yesterday. Absolutely disappointing, just a few new, interesting photos. Cost of the book: €50, thin art paper, see-through, many graphics/documents too small, nothing recognizable, shadowed.
Luftwaffe 46 What if G color graphics and the source information from his own "office". What a shame about the financial expense!View attachment 780805

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It's annoying what awaits you there, lengthy texts, poor typography, questionable sources... what a pity!

What an incorrect rubbish review. What did you expect, the unpublished and unrecorded history in pictures of the mythical 10,000 Me 309's that flew in the war?
Sorry, I can say no more to a misrepresentation. I might ask where the better book is on this subject?

Eng

 

[bf109xxl]

What an incorrect rubbish review.

I've already pre-ordered this book - delivery in a week. I promise to write a ruthlessly objective review after reading it.

 

[Engineman]

I've already pre-ordered this book - delivery in a week. I promise to write a ruthlessly objective review after reading it.

Good. We rarely see many comments from members about books, the odd few.
I think that in this case the lack of other books on the main topic is a big factor.

Eng

 

[Snautzer01]

What i read in #5, is an opinion, not a review.
And everybody got (just like some bodily features) one.

 

[bf109xxl]

The book was delivered earlier than expected. At first glance, it is exactly what I expect from a monograph on a particular airplane. I cannot agree with the above opinion even after a very cursory browsing. The list of references is impressive. The bibliographic list is short, but it apparently reflects the small number of publications on the topic.
Lengthy texts are not boring to read at all - I tried it on different pages. The quality of the illustrations is, in my humble opinion, high enough.
Well, this is only the very first impression, perhaps after a thorough reading I will be more critical. But it will take a long time to read, the review will not appear soon.

questionable sources

I'm just curious, which exactly sources did you find questionable? I would be very grateful if you could provide an example or two - that would be quite enough..

PS. 41,55€ on Amazon.

 

[Snautzer01]

I saw it for less then that including sending in europe. Think bobo got ripped from his seller.

I remember the handle BoBo etc from other forums. Hope you are not that person.

 

[Engineman]

View attachment 780841
The book was delivered earlier than expected. At first glance, it is exactly what I expect from a monograph on a particular airplane. I cannot agree with the above opinion even after a very cursory browsing. The list of references is impressive. The bibliographic list is short, but it apparently reflects the small number of publications on the topic.
Lengthy texts are not boring to read at all - I tried it on different pages. The quality of the illustrations is, in my humble opinion, high enough.
Well, this is only the very first impression, perhaps after a thorough reading I will be more critical. But it will take a long time to read, the review will not appear soon.

I'm just curious, which exactly sources did you find questionable? I would be very grateful if you could provide an example or two - that would be quite enough..

PS. 41,55€ on Amazon.

That seems to be a more balanced quick impression. I read the book over a weekend, nearly 200 pages, but I read it properly, all the pages!
I am fortunate to have extensive experience of the Bf 109 and the engines in this story, so I have an advantage over many readers of this book. However, considering that the subject aircraft here have very little original source material available, I think this book is probably as detailed as it is possible to be. Take it from me, if more or better documents and illustrations were available, they would be here! As for the real story behind this project, I think it is actually exquisitely told, with pure quotation in plenty and modern text explanation as required to help the flow of original information.
I would add that Calum Douglas' fundamental and groundbreaking book The Secret Horsepower Race, is essential reading to accompany this book, and TSHR is surely a bible for WW2 Aero Engine understanding. TSHR is available in original form for around £35 and also in Italian and German print for various prices.
For me, this book explains so much, particularly the thinking and actions of Willy Messerschmitt in 1938-45.

Eng

 

[Sabrejet]

It's annoying what awaits you there, lengthy texts....... what a pity!

The day I get annoyed by lengthy texts in books will be the day I stop reading. Til then the more the merrier!

 

[spicmart]

Yes, I ordered this book from my dealer. I returned it yesterday. Absolutely disappointing, just a few new, interesting photos. Cost of the book: €50, thin art paper, see-through, many graphics/documents too small, nothing recognizable, shadowed.
Luftwaffe 46 What if G color graphics and the source information from his own "office". What a shame about the financial expense!View attachment 780805

View attachment 780806 View attachment 780807
View attachment 780811

View attachment 780813
View attachment 780814
View attachment 780812

It's annoying what awaits you there, lengthy texts, poor typography, questionable sources... what a pity!

Sounds like a thorough unbiased read prior.

 

[MiTasol]

He should have just got a copy from a library service rather than causing the copy he bought being discounted.

 

[Dan Sharp]

Yes, I ordered this book from my dealer. I returned it yesterday. Absolutely disappointing, just a few new, interesting photos. Cost of the book: €50, thin art paper, see-through, many graphics/documents too small, nothing recognizable, shadowed.
Luftwaffe 46 What if G color graphics and the source information from his own "office". What a shame about the financial expense!

It's annoying what awaits you there, lengthy texts, poor typography, questionable sources... what a pity!

I must admit to being a little confused by BOBO's criticism of the book I wrote with Calum.
In particular, I am baffled by the criticism that the text is too lengthy. This is a book, after all - and it has the word 'politics' in the title, which I had hoped would make clear the nature of the text before any prospective reader decided to purchase it.

Two mentions by BOBO of the sources we used: "and the source information from his own 'office'" and "questionable sources".

The book does cite every source we used (see thumbnails below) - at least 300 different primary source documents, each complete with archival reference. These can be found variously at the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum, and the National Archives and Records Administration in Washington, the Imperial War Museum and the National Archives in London and the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv at Freiburg.

For example, if you wanted to see the source document for Chapter 3, endnote 12, you could simply visit the BA-MA and ask to see 'RL 3/1101-147 Messerschmitt Zentralplanung Gesamt Durchlaufplan fuer das Baumuster Me 155 bei SNCAN 9.11.42'. They would then take you to that document and you could see it for yourself. The same goes for every other document. They are in the archives of some of the world's most respected museums. I'm not sure how that makes them 'from my own office' or a 'questionable source'?

Researching and writing this book took a long time. It's an intricate story which has never been told before - and I geniunely believe that it would be impossible for anyone to write about the Me 309 in more detail. Does that make it, as BOBO says, 'annoying'? I'm not sure.

As to our interpretation of the sources, I do believe it would be possible for someone to follow up on our work, review our sources, and reach a different conclusion about what happened to the Me 309. Our book provides all the information someone would need to do that, if they wished.

 

[bf109xxl]

I must admit to being a little confused by BOBO's criticism of the book I wrote with Calum.

BOBO's opinion seems to be shared by very few people. The book is great, thank you for your hard work! I even find it difficult to give an example of comparable quality of monographs.

 

[spicmart]

BOBO's opinion seems to be shared by very few people. The book is great, thank you for your hard work! I even find it difficult to give an example of comparable quality of monographs.

2nd that.

 

[Engineman]

Great book Dan!
Most importantly, this was a real aeroplane that was built and flew in prototype form and had strong effects on the development of other German fighter aircraft in WW2.
Having some knowledge of other German aircraft development, I can see how your precise information fits with other parts of the jigsaw. Others may chose to draw slightly different
conclusions but I feel that your presentation of the primary source information leads to no other result than provided in the evidence we read in your book. You do not write the results of the saga, the reader is presented with the primary evidence of what happened, including primary source comment after the climax! I do not wish to discuss the precise detail at the moment as I feel it is best for those interested to actually read the book, which at around £35 is excellent value.
Thank You and Calum for this great book!

Eng

 

[Dan Sharp]

Great book Dan!
Most importantly, this was a real aeroplane that was built and flew in prototype form and had strong effects on the development of other German fighter aircraft in WW2.
Having some knowledge of other German aircraft development, I can see how your precise information fits with other parts of the jigsaw. Others may chose to draw slightly different
conclusions but I feel that your presentation of the primary source information leads to no other result than provided in the evidence we read in your book. You do not write the results of the saga, the reader is presented with the primary evidence of what happened, including primary source comment after the climax! I do not wish to discuss the precise detail at the moment as I feel it is best for those interested to actually read the book, which at around £35 is excellent value.
Thank You and Calum for this great book!

Eng

Thanks for the kind words.

I do think it would be difficult to argue against the notion that Willy Messerschmitt deliberately set out to get a promising airframe cancelled for reasons of his own. Had he been fully behind it, and had the Me 262 not been rescued from obscurity when it was by Galland, Milch and even Goering (contrary to what he would say later, Willy Messerschmitt was actually against building it in quantity until the Me 209 II had finally been killed off for good), there could easily have been 309s flying in large numbers by the end of the war.

But if someone was determined enough, they might just be able to push the idea that ultimately the Me 309 died because the RLM didn't turn over enough resources to Messerschmitt and he was forced to concoct an alternative 603/213 vehicle using whatever he had to hand.

In interpretation 1, Messerschmitt is a contriver and a manipulator; in interpretation 2 he is merely a put-upon pragmatist. I can see plenty of people preferring to view him as the latter.