Northrop P-61 Black Widow a waste of time resources?

Hey ya Mark

sadly not, as the author worked right from the micro-fische source he had available and true they do not discern whether the night of take off or the end time during landing when a kill was made nor confirmed. I agree the area is of major importance but so vague the ground intruder ops for example just mention 1 to 3 different cities as example of ops so could mean anything after or between them ..........

Thanks for that Erich, it's a shame better info is not available.

mhuxt said:

Heyas Erich,

Is there a source you can recommend which has more complete victory claim info than Queen of the Midnight Skies? The list in the back doesn't say whether, for example, 9 March 1945 is 8/9 or 9/10, and the location info is either non-existent or vague.

Click to expand...

Frank Olynyk's "Stars and Bars" have the NF squadron totals. They co-incide with USAF 85.

totals but do they confirm actual times and areas of downings Bill ? as I said and Mark knows this after going through all of the 422nd/425th nfs and part of the allocated 414th nfs to the 422nd they do not include real areas almost suppositions. would of thought this was a real requirement or did administration per squadron become lazy andit wasn't journaled ?

Erich said:

totals but do they confirm actual times and areas of downings Bill ? as I said and Mark knows this after going through all of the 422nd/425th nfs and part of the allocated 414th nfs to the 422nd they do not include real areas almost suppositions. would of thought this was a real requirement or did administration per squadron become lazy andit wasn't journaled ?

Click to expand...

Don't know the reason. Frank has Axtell's credits and locations but only because he was credited with 5.

Interesting P-61 post from another thread...
- intruder missions
- napalm
Seems perhaps the P-61 was a flexible aircraft.
A quick look at Wikipedia shows a decent bomb load:
Bombs: for ground attack, four bombs of up to 1,600 lb (726 kg) each or six 5 in (127 mm) HVAR unguided rockets could be carried under the wings. Some aircraft could also carry one 1,000 lb (454 kg) bomb under the fuselage.

From the thread: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/napalm-viability-anti-tank-wepon-34767.html#post956583

Erich said:

Tomo I have many first person accounts and from their war diaries of the US NFS 422nd and 425th during the advance into Germany during 1945 where Nap was used nearly ever night by at least 1/2 of the intruder P-61's operations along the Rhine and Mosel rivers. anything subject with lights on roadways and into crossroads/villages was flamed. I can only assume besides dropping on motor transports in low light conditions and low ground-haze smoke the thought was yes armored columns must also have been hit but the true effects on these do not seem to be known and followed up on by daylight Recon.

E ~

Click to expand...

The four 1600lb bombs is a nice sounding but pretty useless load in practice. The only US bomb that weighed 1600lbs was the AP bomb which had much less explosive than a 1000lb bomb and in fact may have less exposive than a 500lb GP bomb.

I am not saying the P-61 didn't do good work as an intruder or perform bombing and ground attack missions. I just don't think they used the 1600lb bombs except on special occasions. Four normal 1000lb bombs is still pretty impressive.

There was a need for extra night fighter production of something for the USAAF. The Mediterranean USAAF night fighters were Beaufighters as the RAF had no Mosquitos to spare despite requests for them. I gather that even the Beaufighters were well used surplus ones released as the RAF squadrons received Mosquitos.

Possibly the accurate question is not whether the P61 was a viable night fighter but was it worth the trouble given that other existing types could have been put into the role (P70,P38 etc.) and served adequately. I wonder, if the USAAF had requested newer Beaufighters rather than Mosquitos, they might have got them?

Following another theme raised here; I consider myself as English and European not British (though with best wishes to the other countries that share the island) and live in France as I consider all of Europe as my country and may move about and live and work where I please. Bless non metric units; there are 624 farthings to a guinea and 16 to the groat so there are 39 groats to a guinea. What could be easier?

yulzari said:

Possibly the accurate question is not whether the P61 was a viable night fighter but was it worth the trouble given that other existing types could have been put into the role (P70,P38 etc.) and served adequately.

Click to expand...

They had decided that the P-70 could not serve adequately, it was a bit too slow and a bit lacking in altitude performance. Perhaps more could have been done but the first few (only one?) turbo A-20s had problems with cooling.
P-38 night fighters were a little late getting into the field and at the time the P-61 was started ( and for several years afterward) the desired radar performance could not be achieved by a radar unit that would fit in/under a P-38.