P-38 wing mounted infrared laser used for tower ID during approach and landing in the pacific theater during WW2

[mjfur]

Here's the manual. Where's the equipment? Pilot training manual for the Lightning P-38 : United States. Army Air Forces. Office of Flying Safety : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Page 55, IFF

Page 62 - Three recognition lights, red, green, and amber, are on the underside of the gondola. On some airplanes a white recognition light is behind the pilot's compartment on the radio equipment. These lights are used as an aid in night formation flying, for signals, and, in combat, for identification.

 

[ThomasP]

So the IR system was probably similar to the 'Tabby' series of equipment, which used the converter tube you referenced?

"CV14x Range of Infra-red Converter Cells"

With the converter tube being mounted on a monocular/binocular body?

 

[manta22]

So the IR system was probably similar to the 'Tabby' series of equipment, which used the converter tube you referenced?

"CV14x Range of Infra-red Converter Cells"

With the converter tube being mounted on a monocular/binocular body?

Quite similar. The image was displayed on a green fluorescent screen. It was a "proximity focus" IR image converter. The imagers used these days are FAR more sensitive.

 

[Airframes]

An IR "pass" or "viewing" filter blocks light waves below 720nm, allowing IR light to be visible to the human eye.
I have personally used such filters, both photographically, and with IR viewing goggles, to photograph or view objects illuminated by a IR light source.

 

[manta22]

An IR "pass" or "viewing" filter blocks light waves below 720nm, allowing IR light to be visible to the human eye.
I have personally used such filters, both photographically, and with IR viewing goggles, to photograph or view objects illuminated by a IR light source.

720nm is a deep red, just on the edge of being infrared. If you can't see IR, no filter will magically make it appear. IR is around 850nm and longer wavelength.

 

[fubar57]

Panther Ausf G With FG1250 Sperber Infared Nightfighting Vision Scope | The World War II Multimedia Database

worldwar2database.com

 

[GrauGeist]

Infrared is divided into groups:
Near, Short, Mid, Long and Far.
Near's wavelength is .75 to 1.4 nm.
Short's wavelength is 1.4 to 3 nm.
Mid's wavelength is 3 to 8 nm.
Long's wavelength is 8 to 15 nm.
Far's wavelength is 15 to 1K nm.

You CAN see Near infrared with filtered lenses, which are made with stacked (or the equivellant) red, blue, red, blue filters. The result is a strange, dim violet color (as has been my experience), but it is possible. A digital camera, can "see" Near IR, and it becomes confused and will display it as a white color.

Early IR optics (WWII era) were in the upper Short range and even now, Military and Law Enforcement use mobile IR optics in the .9 nm range.

I worked closely with LEO for years regarding Short spectrum infrared, regarding design and application.

As an aside, some cold-cathode lighting frequencies will render IR night vision inoperable.

 

[MaicoDoug]

Good morning Gents,

Wow, thank you for all the replies. I understand the conjecture. Certainly because of the limited information of such a device. The name of the company founders was helpful to me as this will take some real searching. The device and technology was actual, installed on the P-38 aircraft wing facing forward, and it was classified. The detector was unknown to me, most likely an easy device to operate in the "shack". Perhaps the PMT (photo multiplier tube).

Photomultiplier tube - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The emission device, what I'm referring to as a "laser" was also a tube. A vacuum tube. With no metal inside to pollute the plasma. The active gas was (is) CO2, a well know and the first gas to be used in a (gas) laser type format. It was RF excited from the outside.

From what I believe I was told at the time that I was in Dana Point, CA meeting with the founders. Doing some simple investigation, Peter Laakmann was born in 1936, so he would not of been involved personally at the later parts of WW2 with anything at apx. age of 8. I am attempting to contact his partner Katherine Corthall as Mr. Laakmann has passed in attempt to offer some clarification if any.

I would say however that posting this inquiry here on this forum has helped myself more that I expected. Believing that the Japanese zeros were in fact preforming touch & go maneuvers on remote air bases is very believable. Some flying at night I'm sure might as well be lost and failed to notice what landing strip they were centering up on during their down wind leg. I believe the story came from one of them whom I met during the final stages of the ownership while I was being introduced to the lab and the people, products.

If and when I can dig up more on this P-38 installed wing hardware, I will post it here.

Thanks again, Doug

 

[bf109xxl]

Infrared is divided into groups:
Near, Short, Mid, Long and Far.
Near's wavelength is .75 to 1.4 nm.
Short's wavelength is 1.4 to 3 nm.
Mid's wavelength is 3 to 8 nm.
Long's wavelength is 8 to 15 nm.
Far's wavelength is 15 to 1K nm.

µm

 

[mjfur]

Good morning Gents,

Wow, thank you for all the replies. I understand the conjecture. Certainly because of the limited information of such a device. The name of the company founders was helpful to me as this will take some real searching. The device and technology was actual, installed on the P-38 aircraft wing facing forward, and it was classified. The detector was unknown to me, most likely an easy device to operate in the "shack". Perhaps the PMT (photo multiplier tube).

Photomultiplier tube - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The emission device, what I'm referring to as a "laser" was also a tube. A vacuum tube. With no metal inside to pollute the plasma. The active gas was (is) CO2, a well know and the first gas to be used in a (gas) laser type format. It was RF excited from the outside.

From what I believe I was told at the time that I was in Dana Point, CA meeting with the founders. Doing some simple investigation, Peter Laakmann was born in 1936, so he would not of been involved personally at the later parts of WW2 with anything at apx. age of 8. I am attempting to contact his partner Katherine Corthall as Mr. Laakmann has passed in attempt to offer some clarification if any.

I would say however that posting this inquiry here on this forum has helped myself more that I expected. Believing that the Japanese zeros were in fact preforming touch & go maneuvers on remote air bases is very believable. Some flying at night I'm sure might as well be lost and failed to notice what landing strip they were centering up on during their down wind leg. I believe the story came from one of them whom I met during the final stages of the ownership while I was being introduced to the lab and the people, products.

If and when I can dig up more on this P-38 installed wing hardware, I will post it here.

Thanks again, Doug

A device so secret no mention of it exists in the aircraft manual or anywhere else?

Why was it installed in just one type of aircraft? A P-38 (twin V-12's) sounds completely different from a Zero (radial engine) in the dark. Why weren't they confused by American radial engines in the dark? When was the secret device installed? Months prior to the invasion? Production, transport, etc.?

Where exactly were the Zero's flying from that got "lost" and would touch-and-go from American bases?
The Battle of Saipan (15 June to 9 July 1944)
The Battle of Guam (21 July–10 August 1944)
The Battle of Tinian (24 July until 1 August 1944).

No disrespect intended, but one of us is in left field.

 

[MaicoDoug]

mjfur, it was only installed on a few aircraft. It was an invention under test. Not for use in every aircraft everywhere. From what I was told, the technology and device was only installed for experimental use. This is how taking experiments from the lab to the field works. That is what I do, R&D. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Deleted member 68059]

mjfur, it was only installed on a few aircraft. It was an invention under test. Not for use in every aircraft everywhere. From what I was told, the technology and device was only installed for experimental use. This is how taking experiments from the lab to the field works. That is what I do, R&D. Thanks for your reply.

Can you not post a picture of one of the documents ?

Even if just the top so we can verify date and the report title ?

 

[Snautzer01]

As said far too complicated for a man in a shack. Laser that is. Perhaps it was described later as like laser?

 

[manta22]

Good morning Gents,

Wow, thank you for all the replies. I understand the conjecture. Certainly because of the limited information of such a device. The name of the company founders was helpful to me as this will take some real searching. The device and technology was actual, installed on the P-38 aircraft wing facing forward, and it was classified. The detector was unknown to me, most likely an easy device to operate in the "shack". Perhaps the PMT (photo multiplier tube).

Photomultiplier tube - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The emission device, what I'm referring to as a "laser" was also a tube. A vacuum tube. With no metal inside to pollute the plasma. The active gas was (is) CO2, a well know and the first gas to be used in a (gas) laser type format. It was RF excited from the outside.

From what I believe I was told at the time that I was in Dana Point, CA meeting with the founders. Doing some simple investigation, Peter Laakmann was born in 1936, so he would not of been involved personally at the later parts of WW2 with anything at apx. age of 8. I am attempting to contact his partner Katherine Corthall as Mr. Laakmann has passed in attempt to offer some clarification if any.

I would say however that posting this inquiry here on this forum has helped myself more that I expected. Believing that the Japanese zeros were in fact preforming touch & go maneuvers on remote air bases is very believable. Some flying at night I'm sure might as well be lost and failed to notice what landing strip they were centering up on during their down wind leg. I believe the story came from one of them whom I met during the final stages of the ownership while I was being introduced to the lab and the people, products.

If and when I can dig up more on this P-38 installed wing hardware, I will post it here.

Thanks again, Doug

A PMT (photomultiplier tube) is a very sensitive detector that can detect even single photons if used properly. It is, however limited in its wavelength to primarily visible light. Some PMTshave been developed with longer wavelength cathodes but those are rare. To do any practical target discrimination, the source would need to be modulated with a code.

 

[MaicoDoug]

I'm attempting to contact Ms. Crothall for any sort of verification.

Snowygrouch, there is no such documentation. But so far the best resource and boots on the ground is here on this thread.

Typically uncle sam never wants to rely on someone's skills. Moving forward and developing technology to stay ahead of other factions are always a possibility, and when it could become possible, often government $$ can be awarded to the person/firm who answers the solicitation. Reminds me of a skilled TIG welder who worked at a depot I believe at Cherry Point, and repaired F-18 combustion cans. When he retired, 6 million was invested in a 22 axis welding system that used a 1500w CO2 laser with artificial vision. We made it on the ABC evening news. All in attempt to replace the $22/hr hastaloy welder. Called "technology transfer".

I'll post more here when and if something else turns up.

 

[SaparotRob]

I love that kind of talk.

 

[pbehn]

Infra red is a spectrum, not all IR has the same properties. I cant figure out whether the discussion is of intensifying near IR or using true infra red or using laser light which came after 1960. I used infra red cameras in 1989 to do all sorts of "stuff". They were the type that produce images that you frequently see in music videos. They can tell which parts of a circuit board are running hot and which arent, where a canal in Saudi has a small leak or which furnace tubes are running hot because they are thinned by corrosion. However they cannot "see" through glass. There is a table in here that explains a bit of it Infrared - Wikipedia

 

[manta22]

Infra red is a spectrum, not all IR has the same properties. I cant figure out whether the discussion is of intensifying near IR or using true infra red or using laser light which came after 1960. I used infra red cameras in 1989 to do all sorts of "stuff". They were the type that produce images that you frequently see in music videos. They can tell which parts of a circuit board are running hot and which arent, where a canal in Saudi has a small leak or which furnace tubes are running hot because they are thinned by corrosion. However they cannot "see" through glass. There is a table in here that explains a bit of it Infrared - Wikipedia

Those cameras are "Thermal Imagers" and operate in the long IR region.

 

[pbehn]

Those cameras are "Thermal Imagers" and operate in the long IR region.

Exactly, but every man and his dog will call it an "Infra Red Camera" I was confused by the lens, since the camera couldnt see through glass. It looked like a glass lens with a gold coating like Astronauts had on their visors, but I was told its actually a tricky ceramic compound.

 

[MIflyer]

There are accounts of US aircraft entering the landing pattern - and not night fighters- at Japanese air bases in the Pacific, and responding to the tower's light signals with lights of their own before slamming on the power and opening fire.