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The coolant storage thing is vastly over rated.
Actually it's not - having spent a short time in the USN, this was mentioned in training many times. Some old chiefs I've been around mentioned that various commands spent much time trying to figure out what liquids could be eliminated aboard ship, especially on carriers and some talked about the RAN and their inline aircraft and the fact of having to have some coolant stored aboard ship, an "extra liquid in bulk."The over rated part is the the coolant was supposed to stay inside the cooling system. There shouldn't have been any bulk storage of prestone on an aircraft carrier.
All - I think it would depend how the shop was set up, usually at the discretion of the maintenance chief and what was expected on the cruiseAre we talking about "bulk" storage as in a built in tank of hundreds of gallons or a number of 55 gallon drums or a number of smaller containers?
Correct, and from what I understand some "flammables" were stored in bilge tanks as well.The Navy is going to want "safe" storage in that what ever sized container's were used would be in racks and fastened down to prevent moving in a sea way.
Yes you cannot just throw a bunch if 1-2 gallon tin cans on shelf in any old store room.
Under normal operations, yes. In a combat environment where you're going to have fluid lines shot up, you're going to need to replenish fluidsYes you want the Prestone stored somewhere safe, but compared to engine oil, which could be needed by several 55 gal drums just to get one large mission off the deck the quantity of Prestone needed per day or per week for normal operations was rather small.
IMO I think the mechanic pool and labor hours for maintaining a fleet of inline engine aircraft would be greater, but a lot of that would depend on the aircraft.the physical space needed was probably the least of the problems. For 50-90 planes are you going to need more mechanics to deal with the liquid cooled engines than air cooled engines? How many man hours per day (or how many flight hours per day/week) and you need a stock of spare parts (hoses, radiators, pumps, etc. )
But it was still an extra fluid not welcomed aboard ship.The logistic foot print for liquid cooled engines could be bigger than air cooled engines but the foot of the coolant itself should not have been that big a deal.
Yes -Late model Corsairs and Hellcats could need 4-5 gallon of alcohol per plane (mixed with about the same amount of water but the water comes from the distillers on the ship).
Granted only fighters used the alcohol and not on ever flight.
Very true, but you needed more Avgas to put one Skyraider into the air for a few hours than 60 liquid cooled engines were going to use up Prestone in several days of flying.If we fast forward in the post Vietnam war days, I know many were relieved when the Skyraider and S-2 were retired so AvGas were no longer carried aboard carriers.
ObviouslyVery true, but you needed more Avgas to put one Skyraider into the air for a few hours than 60 liquid cooled engines were going to use up Prestone in several days of flying.
It isn't so much it its toxicity or flashpoint, it was a matter of space. I had an old maintenance chief tell me if there was a way to magically remove all flammable or toxic liquids from a carrier, it would be a perfect fighting machine!Prestone, unmixed, has flashpoint of 234 degrees F. Compared to gasoline of -40 degrees F or diesel which is around 100 degrees F (depends on grade/s), so there isn't much danger of fumes causing dangerous/explosive vapors.
True, LOL!Besides, everybody knows that you don't need much in the way of replacement Prestone for combat damaged planes.
We have been being told for decades that a single rifle bullet or shell fragment will cause most of the coolant to leak out in a few minutes causing the catastrophic destruction of the engine well before the liquid cooled plane ever makes it back to it's base/carrier.
Well some old crusty maintenance chief who ran a hangar deck for a dozen or more cruises might disagree!Yes, space aboard ship is precious. I just think that the amount of space needed to hold the Prestone for liquid cooled engines is the least of the problems of operating the liquid cooled engines aboard ship.
The problem encountered with the P-51s, was it's stall speed.
Getting it to slow down enough to catch the wire put it dangerously close to a stall.
None tested ever crashed, but there were some harrowing moments - and consider that these test aircraft were flown by extremely experienced pilots.
A gallon of Ethyl Alcohol weighs 6.5 pounds.
A gallon of Ethylene Glycol weighs 9.3 pounds.
Leaks and engine maintenance aside, take into consideration the need for a sufficient store of "Prestone" to compensate for loss of the coolant to battle damage.
A P-51D's total cooling system capacity was 16.5 gallons, which was nearly identical to it's oil capacity.Actually the alcohol used in water injection systems is Methyl - not Ethyl.
And yes there would definitely be a need for Prestone for battle damage, and component replacement, and .......... but far less than oil.
Apples and oranges.View attachment 676175 hmmm . . .
If
The V-1710 was an excellent design - the P-38 proves that . . .
then
The V-1710 was an excellent engine - the P-39 proves that.
then
The P-39 was and excellent design - the V-1710 proves that.
hmmm . . . View attachment 676175
forgive me . . . I can't help myself
View attachment 676175 hmmm . . .
If
The V-1710 was an excellent design - the P-38 proves that . . .
then
The V-1710 was an excellent engine - the P-39 proves that.
then
The P-39 was an excellent design - the V-1710 proves that.
hmmm . . . View attachment 676175
forgive me . . . I can't help myself
Hmmm.View attachment 676175 hmmm . . .
If
The V-1710 was an excellent design - the P-38 proves that . . .
then
The V-1710 was an excellent engine - the P-39 proves that.
then
The P-39 was an excellent design - the V-1710 proves that.
hmmm . . . View attachment 676175
forgive me . . . I can't help myself
I'll refer you back to the nugget that generated the P-38 comment:Hmmm.
The R-1820 was an excellent engine - the F2A proves that..........
then
The R-1820 was an excellent engine-the Hawk 75 proves that.........
Or
The R-1830 was an excellent engine - the P-36 proves that..........
then
The R-1830 was an excellent engine - the P-66 proves that.
then
The R-1830 was an excellent engine - the P-43 proves that (and it had a turbo)..........
the US only had the V1710 (the and we all know how good it was for fighters)
I know.I'll refer you back to the nugget that generated the P-38 comment: