P-51 Mustang family aside, any other good implementations of ventral Meredith radiators, or good ways to do it?

[drgondog]

I think the Hurricane radiator can be excused. Keep in mind Hawkers predecessor of the Hurricane was the Fury, a biplane with fixed landing gear. And the Hurricane project was initially called the "monoplane Fury". And indeed introduced 1935-ish(?).

The Tornado prototype with the ventral radiator, perhaps less excusable.

not to mention that Meredith's paper was published in 1935, a little later than Hurricane prototype.

 

[MIflyer]

Well, fan cooling was adopted for radials to a limited degree, but not to get more thrust but rather to reduce drag and increase the powe

r you could get out of an engine.

 

[drgondog]

A Spitfire with full Meredith-effect capability would have been the ultimate fighter of WW2. It was already the supreme dogfighter. Coupled with a speed increase of 40 or 50 km/h it would habe been superior to all other super-props with maybe the exception of the P-51H. Your opinions?

Agree speed and manueverabiity. Wonder about less range with radiator/aftercooler imbedded aft of pilot's seat, thereby eliminating any extra fuel save some possibility of LE wing tanks.

 

[z42]

Agree speed and manueverabiity. Wonder about less range with radiator/aftercooler imbedded aft of pilot's seat, thereby eliminating any extra fuel save some possibility of LE wing tanks.

If the radiator is moved to the "P-51 location", then in addition to LE wing tanks one could also add wing tanks where the wing mounted radiators are mounted on the historical Spitfire?

 

[drgondog]

If the radiator is moved to the "P-51 location", then in addition to LE wing tanks one could also add wing tanks where the wing mounted radiators are mounted on the historical Spitfire?

Question effect on CG. Virtually any added weight behind main spar contributes to cg aft of design limit.
Question effect on wing structure when the added fuel is placed in that envelope. Both bending and torsion.
Question effect on rolling moment about the cg.
Question effect on wing attach points and longerons due to AoA loads in pull out

Not objections, just questions. I am confident that Supermarine examined alternatives.

I'm Curious - does anybody have a published drag build up for CD and either wind tunnel speed or Reynolds Number at which the drag values were obtained?

 

[z42]

Question effect on CG. Virtually any added weight behind main spar contributes to cg aft of design limit.

Presumably the effect would be less than by putting extra tanks behind the pilot, which are even further aft than the historical Spitfire radiator location!

Question effect on wing structure when the added fuel is placed in that envelope. Both bending and torsion.
Question effect on rolling moment about the cg.
Question effect on wing attach points and longerons due to AoA loads in pull out

Not objections, just questions. I am confident that Supermarine examined alternatives.

Sure, I'm not suggesting that Supermarine should have just winged it. Obviously any changes and the implications thereof would need to be carefully calculated and tested.

(Another thing is that if the Spit with a ventral radiator like S spicmart and you propose, is that you can no longer put a drop tank or bomb on the centerline. So these external stores would have to be mounted on wing hardpoints. And by moving the radiator behind the pilot would also change the CG compared to underwing radiators, probably the wing would need to be mounted further aft on the fuselage. etc. etc.)

 

[drgondog]

Presumably the effect would be less than by putting extra tanks behind the pilot, which are even further aft than the historical Spitfire radiator location!



Sure, I'm not suggesting that Supermarine should have just winged it. Obviously any changes and the implications thereof would need to be carefully calculated and tested.

(Another thing is that if the Spit with a ventral radiator like S spicmart and you propose, is that you can no longer put a drop tank or bomb on the centerline. So these external stores would have to be mounted on wing hardpoints. And by moving the radiator behind the pilot would also change the CG compared to underwing radiators, probably the wing would need to be mounted further aft on the fuselage. etc. etc.)

Did not so propose - only stated questions. One of the questions was cg movement.

 

[MIflyer]

Someone tried to do better than the standard Mustang cooling installation using a modified P-51C. The belly radiator was removed and replaced with two wingtip radiators. The airplane won the Sohio Trophy Race in 1949 but crashed and killed the pilot, Bill Odom, at the 1949 Thompson Trophy Race.

 

[ThomasP]

P-51 racer modification with leading-edge radiators, at the New England Air Museum.

More images here "
View: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10157681331073158&set=a.187002598157"

and here "The New England Air Museum's update on Anson Johnson's P-51 Restoration"