P-51 Mustang family aside, any other good implementations of ventral Meredith radiators, or good ways to do it?

This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

BarnOwlLover

Senior Airman
430
105
Nov 3, 2022
As far as location, the mounting for the Mustang's radiator, it probably just made the most sense for it to be there. I was even thinking about that for the Spitfire. The late decision (from what I read) to abandon evaporative cooling for the Merlin on the Spitfire to conventional water/glycol/water-glycol blend governed the underwing radiators, as well as the mod having to be a bit of a "rush job".

You do also have to remember that the Supermarine 305 turret fighter had a chin radiator, and the 312 cannon fighter was envisioned to use a ventral radiator.
 

Admiral Beez

1st Lieutenant
7,022
7,442
Oct 21, 2019
Toronto, Canada
You could have a Mustang style radiator under each nacelle. But then you have to figure out where to put the main landing gear.
Good points. I now think chin radiators like on the FW-187 would be the best option for the Whirlwind.

Fw-187-10.jpg


Two engines one rad are out, but the Spitfire’s two rads one engine is in.
 

spicmart

Senior Airman
693
120
May 11, 2008
You could have a Mustang style radiator under each nacelle. But then you have to figure out where to put the main landing gear.

It might be possible to retract the landing gear not by retracting it backwards but perpendicular to the engine line with.
If you install such a radiator and its air intake on the side of the nacelle you need not to build it as long as it would be the case when mounting it ventrally.
But you would have to have exhaust stacks which lead away the exhausts from the radiator air intake.
Lke on the Me 110.
In both cases the rear of the nacelles would be quite long.
Maybe even combine the radiator exhaust with turbocharger exhaust if there is one..
 

BarnOwlLover

Senior Airman
430
105
Nov 3, 2022
In any case, single or twin engine, you'll need a fair amount of space for a good Meredith radiator. Here's a couple of cutaways of a XP-51G and P-51H (both used a refined version of the P-51B/C/D/K radiator system).

image084.jpg


tn_gallery_78443_1160_124623.jpg


And a couple P-51D for reference.

01c8dfbc78f7720e9a4b7c29d899d283.jpg
air_550a_003.jpg
 
Last edited:

BarnOwlLover

Senior Airman
430
105
Nov 3, 2022
Also, the P-51H (and the XP-51F/G) have a longer fuselage than the earlier models. Could that help with refining the radiator shrouding, as well as the F-82?
 

BarnOwlLover

Senior Airman
430
105
Nov 3, 2022
Also, I'd like to submit this drawing. Is the radiator installation (this being a 1940 concept illustration) decent, good, or crap?

1.png
 

pbehn

Colonel
12,242
8,941
Oct 30, 2013
Also, I'd like to submit this drawing. Is the radiator installation (this being a 1940 concept illustration) decent, good, or crap?

View attachment 697453
Some things are obvious and others arent. There were numerous changes to the Mustang and P-51 radiator system. They all look similar, only their place in the evolution of the plane gives away whether they were improvements or not to anyone who isnt an expert in either aerodynamics or the history of the plane. To me that needs the scoop moving back and the "splitter" increasing in size.
 

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
It appears to me that the small scoop foreward of the main intake would disrupt the airflow enough that the boundary layer separation would not be the same as the P-51's.
 

Shortround6

Major General
20,360
12,652
Jun 29, 2009
Central Florida Highlands
It is a sketch so we can cut it a bit of slack.
However it does show one of the problems. If you use a short inlet before the air hits the radiator the air going to the top of radiator has to travel considerably further hit the radiator compared to the air hitting the bottom of the radiator and travel considerably further to reach the outlet using a short outlet.
The problem isn't necessarily the distance but the difference in distance which may be sorted out in detail design vs concept sketch.
The greater the difference in the direction the flow takes and the greater the difference in speeds of the airflow in the duct the greater the chances of turbulence in the airflow no matter what was done with boundary layer separation.

Leaving the intake where it is, move the actual radiator back several feet to reduce the angles in the airflow, then add not only the existing outlet but extend it also an additional several feet (you are now just short of the tail wheel) to help straighten out the exit airflow.
Now is that "different" from the sketch or just detail/development?
 

BarnOwlLover

Senior Airman
430
105
Nov 3, 2022
I'm guessing it wouldn't be wise to fare the radiator exit into the fuselage (keeping the fuselage taper near constant without the raised area leading from the exit to the tail)?
 

BarnOwlLover

Senior Airman
430
105
Nov 3, 2022
What I mean is how much the radiator housing sticks out compared to the rear of the fuselage. I know that was a feature of even the Allison powered versions. But it is necessary to have the tail/rear of the fuselage raised so much in contour compared to the front fuselage's underside?
 

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
What I mean is how much the radiator housing sticks out compared to the rear of the fuselage. I know that was a feature of even the Allison powered versions. But it is necessary to have the tail/rear of the fuselage raised so much in contour compared to the front fuselage's underside?
A great deal of early aircraft design was really hit or miss.

By the 1930's, aircraft design theory was still an unexplored territory, as powered flight itself was entering it's third decade.
 

BarnOwlLover

Senior Airman
430
105
Nov 3, 2022
Though it was never actually built or flown, and I don't believe that any detail design docs exist for it, but what about the Hawker P.1027 project for a Rolls-Royce Eagle powered Tempest that did use a ventral radiator similar to the XP-51F/G and the P-51H and F-82?


 

spicmart

Senior Airman
693
120
May 11, 2008
A Spitfire with full Meredith-effect capability would have been the ultimate fighter of WW2. It was already the supreme dogfighter. Coupled with a speed increase of 40 or 50 km/h it would habe been superior to all other super-props with maybe the exception of the P-51H. Your opinions?
 

Users who are viewing this thread