Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
All things considered, my suspicions have been correct all these years, the P-51A was one fast ship.
P-51A and P-51D
- Thread starter GregP
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
HA...the closest I will ever get to "fly by wire" will be the next time I fire up my xbox to dogfight or my computer to shoot landings and take offs on xplane. everything I will fly will be rigged with good ole cable. I was looking at a teenie two which also has standard rigging but the stick was on the right hand side. price was right...plane was decent just had misgivings about the side stick.
the 51A and the 39 were both decent lower level fighters. but the bombers were designed to fly high alts...to evade flak and enemy fighters I presume. why didn't the us match the performance of its fighters to the abilities of its bombers? yeah I know the prevailing theory was self defending bombers but what if the other side had bombers of the same capability? our fighters would have a hard time intercepting them.
the 51A and the 39 were both decent lower level fighters. but the bombers were designed to fly high alts...to evade flak and enemy fighters I presume. why didn't the us match the performance of its fighters to the abilities of its bombers? yeah I know the prevailing theory was self defending bombers but what if the other side had bombers of the same capability? our fighters would have a hard time intercepting them.
Shortround6
Major General
Since the US had multiple fighters it tends to depend which fighter you are referring to. The P-38 was certainly capable as a design of intercepting any Bomber the US had in 1941-43. The P-47 with turbo was ordered in 1940.
They had the high altitude bomber pretty well covered.
Adding two stage superchargers to 1100-1200hp engines also means adding 10-15 cu. ft of duct work and intercoolers and making the two stage plane 15-40mph slower than the single stage plane at lower altitudes.
Please remember that in 1940 US 100 octane fuel was just that. 100/100 not 100/25 or 100/130 so there were limits as to what you could do.
drgondog
Major
We were the only nation that drove high altitude fast strategic bombers prior to Pearl Harbor - and the P-38 and P-47 were both capable of intercepting at ranges greater than Axis fighters save the A6M - as designed to Spec.
- Thread starter
- #46
GregP
Major
Just FTI, Steve said the density altitude was such that they were only able to get 50 inches at 3,000 rpm out of the Allison for 356 mph in qualifying. He figures no more than 1,150 HP or so. In Wee Willy they got a few more inches at the same rpm and only got another 1 mph from it.
In the race, the Allison was a little bit faster at rated rpm, and neither one was pushed beyond max ratings for any parameter. Both made it home with no sing of any trouble, and everyone is happy about that. Not everyone was so lucky. Here's footage of the Formula 1 runway accident.
We will probably not wash the exhaust streaks from Mrs. Virginia for a few weeks ... it's a good talking point that this essentially stock airplane made full power a a race only two weeks ago.
Voodoo's race engine had NO problems but they don't fly it around on the race engine, so a stock Merlin was swapped into the airframe for the flight home.
In the race, the Allison was a little bit faster at rated rpm, and neither one was pushed beyond max ratings for any parameter. Both made it home with no sing of any trouble, and everyone is happy about that. Not everyone was so lucky. Here's footage of the Formula 1 runway accident.
We will probably not wash the exhaust streaks from Mrs. Virginia for a few weeks ... it's a good talking point that this essentially stock airplane made full power a a race only two weeks ago.
Voodoo's race engine had NO problems but they don't fly it around on the race engine, so a stock Merlin was swapped into the airframe for the flight home.
Last edited:
Venturi
Airman
Man's gonna need ortho. Thanks for the report Greg.
Last edited:
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
that'll rate a 10 on the pucker meter!
- Thread starter
- #49
GregP
Major
For those who don't know, Thom Richard is a class guy. His Unlimited is Precious Metal, the contra-prop P-51 that suffered a fire meltdown and is being rebuilt. Now he has a very fast Formula 1 that was one of the favorites to win, has an engine failure on the ground, signals same to the correct people, and STILL gets tagged! Now THAT's bad luck or bad karma!
I like him very much as a person and a racer, but might hesitate to get on a boat with him to fish the Bermuda Triangle, entirely out of a sense of self-preservation foreboding and nothing else.
I hope his planes come back better and faster than new, and he gets a fair and square win. I'd even volunteer to help rebuild one or both ... situation permitting, assuming we didn't need to sail through the Bermuda Triangle to get there.
I went into the Planes of Fame today to straighten up my workbench from yesterday. I got an aluminum sliver in my eye that somwhow went around the edge of safety glasses and left hurridly for the E-room, but it magically "went away" just as I turned into the hospital parking lot. Go figure, I had tears running all the way over involuntarily from one eye. No harm done. But I had left the workbench in a mess (from cleaning up clear photo panel doors off an RF-84F) and didn't want it to stay that way for a week. When I was on the way over, my V8 4WD pickup was blown as much as 3/4 of a lane by gusts of wind ... in city traffic, not highway. The only thing that saved everyone was that EVERYONE was moved around about the same. First time I haven't seen ANY motorcycles at all on the way over in 10+ years.
As I was leaving the museum, Steve Hinton arrived in his P-51D Wee Willly from an airshow, and I helped with the gates, towbar, hangar doors, etc. . When he got out, all he said was , "Man, that was a bumpy ride!"
My truck gets moved in the same weather at low speeds. He was in a high-horsepower, WWII fighter with conventional gear, and all he says is it's bumpy? All I can say is there's a guy who is comfortable with tailwheels and gusty crosswinds! That's the kind of tailwheel skill I hope to get someday. Realistically, if I were ever goling to get that good, I already WOULD be. That could be a depressing thought if I allowed it to be ...
Here is Steve-O's race:
Note his smooth lines and lack of "wandering up & down."
Cheers.
I like him very much as a person and a racer, but might hesitate to get on a boat with him to fish the Bermuda Triangle, entirely out of a sense of self-preservation foreboding and nothing else.
I hope his planes come back better and faster than new, and he gets a fair and square win. I'd even volunteer to help rebuild one or both ... situation permitting, assuming we didn't need to sail through the Bermuda Triangle to get there.
I went into the Planes of Fame today to straighten up my workbench from yesterday. I got an aluminum sliver in my eye that somwhow went around the edge of safety glasses and left hurridly for the E-room, but it magically "went away" just as I turned into the hospital parking lot. Go figure, I had tears running all the way over involuntarily from one eye. No harm done. But I had left the workbench in a mess (from cleaning up clear photo panel doors off an RF-84F) and didn't want it to stay that way for a week. When I was on the way over, my V8 4WD pickup was blown as much as 3/4 of a lane by gusts of wind ... in city traffic, not highway. The only thing that saved everyone was that EVERYONE was moved around about the same. First time I haven't seen ANY motorcycles at all on the way over in 10+ years.
As I was leaving the museum, Steve Hinton arrived in his P-51D Wee Willly from an airshow, and I helped with the gates, towbar, hangar doors, etc. . When he got out, all he said was , "Man, that was a bumpy ride!"
My truck gets moved in the same weather at low speeds. He was in a high-horsepower, WWII fighter with conventional gear, and all he says is it's bumpy? All I can say is there's a guy who is comfortable with tailwheels and gusty crosswinds! That's the kind of tailwheel skill I hope to get someday. Realistically, if I were ever goling to get that good, I already WOULD be. That could be a depressing thought if I allowed it to be ...
Here is Steve-O's race:
Note his smooth lines and lack of "wandering up & down."
Cheers.
Last edited:
Old Wizard
2nd Lieutenant
jimh
Senior Airman
lol...I'll take a 40kt crosswind in a Mustang any day over a 10kt crosswind in my cub 
jim
jim
- Thread starter
- #52
GregP
Major
Slightly different wing loading, huh?
drgondog
Major
Ah, but you can put the cub down cross runway, roll to the transient and go home. Kidding aside I have been a passenger on a An Alaskan hunting trip in a Super Cub, pilot flies into the wind parallel to mountain slope, with upslope gear touching for me to climb out, retrieve my rifle and pack - and off he went.lol...I'll take a 40kt crosswind in a Mustang any day over a 10kt crosswind in my cub
jim
- Thread starter
- #54
GregP
Major
Wish you had Go Pro at the time!
drgondog
Major
IIRC the when we touched our heading was into a 40kt wind, when he lifted away and turned downwind - He Be Gone! I admit to being a little amped up as I was struggling to keep my balance to get my gear. It was a little too steep to throw anything out first.
- Thread starter
- #56
GregP
Major
Sounds like a marvelous adventure that went well since you are alive and posting. Good on ya'.
jimh
Senior Airman
lol...yep just a bit different. Mustangs drive through a crosswind like no other airplane I've flown...its a non event. The Cub is a kite
drgondog
Major
Jim - A close friend of Dad's, Warren Peglar, flew a couple of years combat with Spit V and IX, before TDY to 355th FG and Mustangs. He got four plus one on the ground in 40 missions compared to two on the Ground with three years/250 missions with Spit/Tempest V. His observation was that the Spit was the better cross wind bird, the Mustang not bad 'but have to watch it' - but both better than Tempest/Typhoon.lol...yep just a bit different. Mustangs drive through a crosswind like no other airplane I've flown...its a non event. The Cub is a kite
jimh
Senior Airman
Interesting! I haven't flown a Spit yet but I can imagine they are similar, given the weight...although the narrow gear of the Spit would make me pay closer attention to approach. Not saying that you can relax in a Mustang. There are a couple great tricks you can use in a P-51...1, as soon as you touch down pull the flaps up (the handle is no where near the gear handle), 2 the other is to pull the mixture to idle cutoff.
Once the flaps start coming up it stalls the wing immediately and you are done flying, just have to keep it straight...pulling the mixture shuts the engine down and that huge prop becomes a huge air brake...just don't forget to put it back in rich before it stops turning.
I'd love to fly a Spit...I've heard nothing but good things about the ground handling.
Jim
drgondog
Major
Hi Jim - I actually had a several long conversations with Peglar after dad passed away. He was one of two folks that I knew well that flew both Spit and Mustang - the other being Sandy McCorkle.
Peglar said the narrow gear was never an issue (for him) and that the Spit tracked like it was on rails, even in crosswind. He opined that perhaps the smaller rudder area v P-51 was a factor.
Another interesting tidbit was that he only tried a turning fight in a P-51 - Once - with a 109 on the deck. Dropping flaps kept him even but at the cost of losing too much airspeed, He had shot down his second 109 on the deck and found a third at 4 O'clock and was, by his own admission, 'not in a good place, low and slow' with inevitable end result had it continued. His wingman Schultz blew the 109 up while 'it' was distracted. Peglar shot down two FW 190s and two Bf 109s while he was with the 355th - on the only two instances that he was able to engage.
