P47 landing gear parts?
- Thread starter frenchie
- Start date
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IMHO it doesn't look like the P-47 oleo. IMHO it is the P-51 Mustang. See the enlarged shot below. The P-47D oleo was larger to bear the weight of the kite and had more clamps for attaching other parts. Especially at the area with the upper torque link. The distance between the top torque link and the attaching points for the wheel bay door "actuators" are different for the P-47 and the P-51. In various images it can be noticed that the P-51 had them closer to the attached top torque link than the P-47. In your pics it looks like for the P-51. What is more the landing light pivot shaft of the P-51 had the dill and screw at the case top what aslo can be noticed both in your images and the one I have attached here below.. Additionally pay your attention to the edge of the case of the pivot shaft that joining the rest of the oleo tube. The P-51 had it at a right angle while the P-47 had it rounded what looks like being one part but not like a pipe put into the another pipe for the P-51. And fianlly the mount of the actuator for rectracting/lowering down of the landing legs was at the different locations IIRC. The P-47 had the mount just casted with the pivot shaft and could be seen in the wheel bay while the P-51 didn't have it casted there but had it attached to the back end of the shaft. The broken and slightly coroded actuator can be still noticed protruding at the back of the broken landing leg mount with the shaft in that.
the P-51 oleo ...
the pic source: The New England Air Museum's update on Anson Johnson's P-51 Restoration
the P-47 one ...
the pic source: https://www.aircorpsaviation.com/august-september-dakota-territory-air-museum-p-47-update-4/
the P-51 oleo ...
the pic source: The New England Air Museum's update on Anson Johnson's P-51 Restoration
the P-47 one ...
the pic source: https://www.aircorpsaviation.com/august-september-dakota-territory-air-museum-p-47-update-4/
- Thread starter
- #4
Hello Wurger, sorry for the delay in replying. Once again, you've found the answer—thank you. It certainly looks a lot like a landing gear component from a P-51 Mustang. I know which region it came from, so I should be able to trace the aircraft's history. It just goes to show that you can't always rely on eyewitness accounts from the time; people often lacked the knowledge to distinguish between the various aircraft of World War II.
Thanks again for your help, Wurger.
I have one last question: is there a way to identify a German or British aircraft using the serial numbers of its onboard armament? I know this is possible for the USAAF via MACR records, but what about other nations?
Thanks again, Wurger.
Have a great day.
Laurent
Hi,
I guess you mean id a specific airframe? Yes, if you have the appropriate record! Generally though, I think the German records are more difficult to find, they were very good at destroying records.
Lets see what Wurger thinks, he is very good!
Eng
Hi again,
I agree with Engineman. If you have the appropriate record you may ID a particular plane. However the data is not always available and as Engineman mentioned the German records are quite difficult to find because these were destroyed at the end of the war. Regarding the other countries .. all depends on if the data was saved or not. Many lists of the equipment were lost because there was somebody who decided these weren't needed any longer. Also it is quit edifficult to imagine that in Russia (for instance) they maintaind such records at the factory assembling lines while they needed every plane immediately.
Of course the serial numbers and other factory markings on the armamant pieces are always useful and should allow to ID eg. MGs, cannons etc ... and this may lead to ID of the aircarft type but in the general way only. But not the particular one. It is like you would ask about the pilot's collar size having a refueling cap from his plane.
I agree with Engineman. If you have the appropriate record you may ID a particular plane. However the data is not always available and as Engineman mentioned the German records are quite difficult to find because these were destroyed at the end of the war. Regarding the other countries .. all depends on if the data was saved or not. Many lists of the equipment were lost because there was somebody who decided these weren't needed any longer. Also it is quit edifficult to imagine that in Russia (for instance) they maintaind such records at the factory assembling lines while they needed every plane immediately.
Of course the serial numbers and other factory markings on the armamant pieces are always useful and should allow to ID eg. MGs, cannons etc ... and this may lead to ID of the aircarft type but in the general way only. But not the particular one. It is like you would ask about the pilot's collar size having a refueling cap from his plane.
- Thread starter
- #7
I agree with you,But I thought these parts could be traced, just like in the American MACRs. Some parts in very poor condition were found at scrap yards in France; although their condition was bad, the serial number was still legible. I was just wondering about it.
Hi Frenchie,
I think the tracking of serial numbers (manufacturers or official regulators individual serial numbers) was generally for accounting or controlling purposes. This involved purchase control, part tracking and payment accounting. Western nations certainly recorded at some stage these numbers. Often this was during production, in batches of components to stores and in Aircraft and Engine log books. In WW2 days, the tracking of individual routine parts would cease at the fitting to an aircraft, or even before at the factory gate for minor items in bulk. Major items like aircraft and engines might carry some serial numbers of their major parts. Armament was in a different league, because of the importance of tracking weapons.
Many weapons were only fitted close to their operational use, and virtually all would be removed for cleaning regularly, so serial numbers were usually tracked on units. The importance of weapon serial numbers on loss reports was as a cross check when these weapons were lost. Most military authorities had strong regulations about missing weapons!
Out of all this tracking, after time nearly all routine records were destroyed, and the Germans were very thorough in destroying records of anything as the war went against them.
So where loss reports survive, the weapons and serials survived with them but, the routine 99.9% of day to day records were later destroyed by admin routine or because someone wanted to destroy all records.
Eng
I think the tracking of serial numbers (manufacturers or official regulators individual serial numbers) was generally for accounting or controlling purposes. This involved purchase control, part tracking and payment accounting. Western nations certainly recorded at some stage these numbers. Often this was during production, in batches of components to stores and in Aircraft and Engine log books. In WW2 days, the tracking of individual routine parts would cease at the fitting to an aircraft, or even before at the factory gate for minor items in bulk. Major items like aircraft and engines might carry some serial numbers of their major parts. Armament was in a different league, because of the importance of tracking weapons.
Many weapons were only fitted close to their operational use, and virtually all would be removed for cleaning regularly, so serial numbers were usually tracked on units. The importance of weapon serial numbers on loss reports was as a cross check when these weapons were lost. Most military authorities had strong regulations about missing weapons!
Out of all this tracking, after time nearly all routine records were destroyed, and the Germans were very thorough in destroying records of anything as the war went against them.
So where loss reports survive, the weapons and serials survived with them but, the routine 99.9% of day to day records were later destroyed by admin routine or because someone wanted to destroy all records.
Eng
gillescollaveri
Airman
- 86
- Dec 25, 2020
Hi all
further more, I would add that tracability during wartime was most probably a bit hectic.
When fixing an aircraft during a night time (changing a flap or a component, for example), I bet such change of S/N was not recorded.
Nowadays, tracability is at top level in airlines because safety is an absolute must, so maintenance records are today pristine (or supposed to be) , but during wartime, it was certianly more loose and canibalisation was current,
so, for exept big or important components such as engine or weapons, S/N of components was probably not follow up carefully.
In my experience, I often found plates mentioning "A/C Manufacturer Serial Number X" on A/C wreck with MSN Y.
Difficult job, what we do...
Best reagrds
Gilles
further more, I would add that tracability during wartime was most probably a bit hectic.
When fixing an aircraft during a night time (changing a flap or a component, for example), I bet such change of S/N was not recorded.
Nowadays, tracability is at top level in airlines because safety is an absolute must, so maintenance records are today pristine (or supposed to be) , but during wartime, it was certianly more loose and canibalisation was current,
so, for exept big or important components such as engine or weapons, S/N of components was probably not follow up carefully.
In my experience, I often found plates mentioning "A/C Manufacturer Serial Number X" on A/C wreck with MSN Y.
Difficult job, what we do...
Best reagrds
Gilles
