Record of losses for Japanese Recon in South Pacific?

• Dec 11, 2017

• #1

Greg Boeser

1st Sergeant

5,249

10,910

Jul 29, 2016

Minnesota

After reading Lundstrom's "First Team" series, it would appear that Japanese patrol a/c were easy meat for US fighters, and even scout planes. Is there a record of losses for the units involved to compare claims against?

 

• Dec 12, 2017

• #2

Shinpachi

Colonel

12,030

15,475

Feb 17, 2008

Osaka

Details by the theater is unknown but a Japanese researcher estimates the number around this.

Name/Production/Left/Lost

E7K Alf/530/78/452
E13A Jake/1,423/201/1,222
H8K Emily/131/4/127
C6N Myrt/398-498/173/225-325
K11W Shiragiku/798/375/423

Data source
機種別生産機数

 

• Dec 30, 2017

• Thread starter
• #3

Greg Boeser

1st Sergeant

5,249

10,910

Jul 29, 2016

Minnesota

Sorry. I should have been more specific.
Are unit records of the 851st Ko available in English, and do they record specific losses sustained during the Guadalcanal campaign, August 1942 to Feb 1943?
I'm trying to verify a kill claim for a H6K on Jan 31 or Feb 1 or thereabouts.

 

• Dec 31, 2017

• #4

Shinpachi

Colonel

12,030

15,475

Feb 17, 2008

Osaka

Not available in English.

IJN 851st-ku Flying boat H6K Year:1943
Date Damaged/Lost
Jan 29 0/0
Jan 30 0/0
Jan 31 0/0
Feb 1 1/0
Feb 2 0/0
Feb 3 0/1

Data source: Japan Center for Asian Historical Records
Ref code: C08051718700

 

• Dec 31, 2017

• Thread starter
• #5

Greg Boeser

1st Sergeant

5,249

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Jul 29, 2016

Minnesota

Don't suppose they list the circumstances for Feb 1 and Feb 3?

 

• Jan 1, 2018

• #6

Shinpachi

Colonel

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15,475

Feb 17, 2008

Osaka

On Feb 1, 2 flying boats (H6K or H8K) left the base of Shortland at 03:35 and 03:40 respectively.
The former returned at 12:42 without finding enemy. The latter encountered a Consolidated flying boat at 09:56. Got involved in air combat at 10:03. Left the area at 10:33. Homed at 13:30. Damaged on flap, wing wire and fuselage. Consumed shells: 20mm x 115/7.7mm x 1,097. No casualty. Gave the opponent damage but no kill.



On Feb 3, 1 H6K (or H8K) left the base of Shortland at ?? Encountered an enemy large aircraft and involved in air combat twice at ??
Crashed near the Shortland base at 13:35. Casualty: 4.

 

Last edited: Jan 1, 2018

• Jan 1, 2018

• #7

Shinpachi

Colonel

12,030

15,475

Feb 17, 2008

Osaka

In my last post, I wrote "H6K or H8K" because not only there was no remark about the airframe type on the log but the crew number looked too many for the H6K. After some research, I think that it would be natural to think that unit 851-ku owned the H6K only. Other unit like 802-ku which stayed in the same area/period separated the H6K from the H8K clearly as it owned both. The H6K seems to have been operated with capacity over. Just my guess though

 

Last edited: Jan 1, 2018

• Jan 1, 2018

• Thread starter
• #8

Greg Boeser

1st Sergeant

5,249

10,910

Jul 29, 2016

Minnesota

Interesting.
A B-26B of the 70th Bomb Squadron is reported to have engaged a H6K "Mavis" on 1 Feb 1943 (some sources say 2 Feb). Cpt John Sharp reported engaging the enemy at daybreak, making two passes and setting one engine on fire, before being hit in the wing spar by a 20mm shell. He returned to base at Henderson Field, and the enemy was reported down in the sea near Santa Isabel Is. Sharp's plane was equipped with 2 fixed forward .50 caliber package guns, in addition to it's standard defensive armament.

 

• May 8, 2018

• Thread starter
• #9

Greg Boeser

1st Sergeant

5,249

10,910

Jul 29, 2016

Minnesota

I found the war diary of AIRSOPACFOR for Jan - Feb 1943. over at fold3.com. The entry for 2 Feb 1943 lists an encounter between a PBY and a 4 engine flying boat at 1045 L, lasting 25 minutes. It also lists a combat between a B-26 and a 4 engine flying boat resulting in damage to the B-26, but doesn't give a time. Are there any other reports of flying boats encountering enemy on this date?

 

• May 8, 2018

• #10

Shinpachi

Colonel

12,030

15,475

Feb 17, 2008

Osaka

No encounter on Feb 2 but Feb 1 as I posted in #6.

She(H6K) consumed 115 20mm shells as well as 1,097 7.7mm shells to give big damage to the Consolidated flying boat.
Air combat ended at 10:33 when the opponent gave up fight. B-26 was not reported.

 

• May 8, 2018

• #11

parsifal

Colonel

13,354

2,133

Apr 6, 2008

Orange NSW

magnificent guys. very interesting. Japanese reported losses bear virtually no resemblance to claims data as usual.

 

• May 8, 2018

• Thread starter
• #12

Greg Boeser

1st Sergeant

5,249

10,910

Jul 29, 2016

Minnesota

That goes both ways. Read Eagles of the Southern Sky.
I want to draw your attention to the fact that no report of engaging with enemy flying boat was reported on the 1st, but one that nearly matches the Japanese description is reported on the 2nd (PBY vs flying boat lasting about 30 minutes) .
No encounter with enemy flying boats was reported on the third, yet Japanese records record a duel resulting in a crash on the 3rd. The B-26 definitely fought a flying boat on the 2nd.
So it is entirely possible that these reports were filed after the actions and the dates were recorded wrong?
If a plane went down on the 2nd, the surviving crew might not have filed their report until the 3rd. Would also explain why flight time info was lacking in report.