Reno 2014 News

[GregP]

Rare Bear, in it's heyday, never HAD to run faster than they did. The secret to Reno is to win as slowly as possible. If they were in front, they won as slowly as possible. If they were behind, it was due to mechanical issue and the Nitrous wasn't going to help.

On a good day, Rare Bear can hit 540 mph straight and level, just about exactly the same as Voodoo or Strega. That, of course, is on Nitrous Oxide. Hence my premise that if Rod Lewis would allow it to run, it would be VERY competitive.

They haven't run Nitrous since Rod bought the Bear and have had successive years of mechanical Gremlins, to the tune of replacing the entire hydraulic system in 2010 when the "green crew" loaded it with water instead of hydraulic fluid on Saturday ... and the gear never fuly retracted ...

Of course, you may still not agree, but that's OK. Only time and Nitrous will tell ... IF the races go on.

 

[grampi]

Rare Bear, in it's heyday, never HAD to run faster than they did. The secret to Reno is to win as slowly as possible. If they were in front, they won as slowly as possible.

True...in an actual race, but not for qualifying. They run as fast as possible during qualification runs and Bear has never run as fast as Dago or Strega has...also, and I can't verify any of this as it was second hand info from crew members of Dago and Strega, but they have said these planes are capable of speeds in excess of 570 mph in level flight, however, I don't know at what alitutude, or what any of the other conditions were when these speeds were attained...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Folks, understand that during the races, once you're in front and are flying your "line" you have nothing but "clean air" (no turbulence or prop wash) in front of you. You could only pass on the outside (and can only go so high in certain parts of the course) and to do so you better have a lot of "smash" to be able to pass the lead plane, and you're doing this while getting the crap knocked out of you from the lead plane's prop wash. During the race those planes behind the lead are flying in continual turbulence and it's a chore just to stay on the course, let alone maintaining your race line when you're in close proximity to each other. Achieving and staying in that pole position at is essential and the slower plane can actually win if it could initially accelerate into the lead and maintain its line without cutting a pylon. In the class I crew in (Jet) I believe it's worse since not only do we have vortices coming off the aircraft, but we're putting out jet wash as well.

So in the case of Rare Bear vs. the rest of the world, it's a matter of achieving the pole during qualifications, not being out-accelerated during the start of the race and being able to maintain your line at a high speed for 6 laps …

Oh - and hoping that no other racer has that extra smash to get around you on the outside….

 

[grampi]

Folks, understand that during the races, once you're in front and are flying your "line" you have nothing but "clean air" (no turbulence or prop wash) in front of you. You could only pass on the outside (and can only go so high in certain parts of the course) and to do so you better have a lot of "smash" to be able to pass the lead plane, and you're doing this while getting the crap knocked out of you from the lead plane's prop wash. During the race those planes behind the lead are flying in continual turbulence and it's a chore just to stay on the course, let alone maintaining your race line when you're in close proximity to each other. Achieving and staying in that pole position at is essential and the slower plane can actually win if it could initially accelerate into the lead and maintain its line without cutting a pylon. In the class I crew in (Jet) I believe it's worse since not only do we have vortices coming off the aircraft, but we're putting out jet wash as well.

So in the case of Rare Bear vs. the rest of the world, it's a matter of achieving the pole during qualifications, not being out-accelerated during the start of the race and being able to maintain your line at a high speed for 6 laps …

Oh - and hoping that no other racer has that extra smash to get around you on the outside….

I thought Reno was like 8 or 9 laps?

 

[GregP]

Hi Joe,

Correct me if I'm wrong here but, as I recall it, the Mustangs almost always jumped out in front og the Brear when it was winning. The Merlins go like stink in the first 2 - 4 laps. The they gtet heat-soaked and have to turn down the manifold pressure or risk engine failure.

Rare Bear, on the other hand, hardly ever raced in the first 2 laps. John Penney was famous for saying he didn't race until lap 3 when all the temps were in the green ... or almost all the temps. Then he'd increase power every lap until the end and usually passed for the lead in the last 3 - 4 laps or so and then pulled away snartly when the Merlins were in lower MAP mode and he was running 4,000 HP.

I believe if Rod Lewis would take the same tack, he'd have MUCH better success.

I say Grampi, Joe and I should meet at Reno if they hold the next race, and the loser buys dinner and the beer at the Grand Sierra Hotel.

Hell, even the loser wins. AND we get to see Reno!

 

[grampi]

Greg, check out this video...I didn't see anywhere in this video where the pilot was slowing down...he pretty much ran the same speeds the entire race.....oh, if we're picking winners, I'll take Voodoo for the next several years, or until Dago starts racing again...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wxSqS7BM

 

[grampi]

...and Greg, what is this "if they hold the next race" stuff?

 

[GregP]

Hi Grampi,

That is nowhere NEAR a front runner and the engine sounds the same at 140" as it does at 120" if the rpm is the same ... and it IS a constant-speed prop. Neither Strega nor Voodoo run full power for the entire 8 laps or they wouldn't MAKE it for 8 laps. The Merlins get heat-soaked. Thom isn't flying a Merlin and isn't making anywhere NEAR the horsepower that both Strega and Voodoo make, so he isn't absorbing the same heat ... and we can't see his manifold pressure gauge either. Go look at the RARA website and look at the race lap speeds for each lap for the winners and seconds place guys.

Most racers expect Reno to go away because RARA (Reno Air Race Association) is trying to squeeze every dollar from everyone who attends ... and they are hemhoraging money. We'll see.

For those of you who LIKE and follow the races, here's a few shots from today. First, here's your 2014 Champion:

Here's Strega on the same ramp at Planes of Fame:

Some of you may know that Voodoo's crew chief is Reno legend Bill Kerchenfaut, who sometimes expresses his delight with something by sayin "Now that's the cat's a**." To help remind Bill of that, they decorated Voodoo with his favirote expression:

Here''s our flying wing with Strega immediately in front:

They were both "visiting" to film a commercial locally and will be at the museum for a couple of months! It's serendipity in action. All for now.

And, grampi, you never said if you'd make Reno next year. C'mon, let's DO it. I bet I can twist Joe's arm into it (since he crews ona jet racer).

And yes, I'd love to see Dago Red come back to life, either stock or as a racer. It would be great.

And I don't believe the 570 mph at all. At 5,000 feet a stock Mustang will go about 370 mph on 1490 HP (assuming a US-made P-51D). I'll make as assumption that Strega and Voodoo have about an 8% decrease in drag and both make about 3,850 HP. Standard aerodynamic formulas will predict 522 mph. They really can do 540 in a straight line, so my drag reduction estimate SHOULD be about 16.8%. They can obviously can go that fast, but 570 mph would require a drag reduction of 29.3% and I don't belive that or anything close to that. I've been up close to Dago Red and it's clean, but not 30% drag-reduction clean. It didn't even LOOK as clean as Voodoo or Strega, but looks can be deceiving. It's speed suggests it IS fast, but I would never believe 570 mph until they DID it and it was verified. If that happened, it surely would NOT have P-51 wings. It would have to be a very different airfoil.

The other alternative is to have about the same drag as Strega and Voodoo, but it would have to make 4,528 HP to go 570 mph, and I don't believe any Merlin-based engine can do that and live. Further, when I worked for Joe Yancey, we had Dago Red's racing Merlin block in the shop in 2012 and it did NOT have any modifications that suggest another 800+ HP over Strega or Voodoo. The block was twised 7° and we had to deck the block to make it level. Then we had to build up the crank journals and line-bore it to make the crankshaft journals straight again. I say "we" but I mean Joe Yancey, not me. I observed and helped when Joe asked. He also made the missing center main bearing cap (it's unique), which is what they mostly wanted to start with since theirs was missing entirely when the block came into the shop. The bank sold it to the new owners and they came looking for the engine with the police. We said they could have it when they paid the bill and that's how it went down.

It made for an interesting day.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I thought Reno was like 8 or 9 laps?

Heat races are 6 laps, the gold is 8 laps.

Hi Joe,

Correct me if I'm wrong here but, as I recall it, the Mustangs almost always jumped out in front og the Brear when it was winning. The Merlins go like stink in the first 2 - 4 laps. The they gtet heat-soaked and have to turn down the manifold pressure or risk engine failure.

Rare Bear, on the other hand, hardly ever raced in the first 2 laps. John Penney was famous for saying he didn't race until lap 3 when all the temps were in the green ... or almost all the temps. Then he'd increase power every lap until the end and usually passed for the lead in the last 3 - 4 laps or so and then pulled away snartly when the Merlins were in lower MAP mode and he was running 4,000 HP.

I believe if Rod Lewis would take the same tack, he'd have MUCH better success.

That's part of maintaining your line and I should have elaborated on that. If you have to throttle back and your opponent has that extra smash it's obvious you're going to get passed on the outside. I know this is common in the unlimiteds, it seems the faster sport classes don't heat soak as much and in the jets we're worrying about rising EGTs. In 2010, the last year I worked for Mangold, he got the jump on Curt Brown out of the chute and had the lead for 2 or 3 laps but Mike saw his EGT rising and throttled back on the last lap.

I say Grampi, Joe and I should meet at Reno if they hold the next race, and the loser buys dinner and the beer at the Grand Sierra Hotel.

Hell, even the loser wins. AND we get to see Reno!

You got it! I've been asked to return next year with the RIF RAF team and we hope to expand our field and participation. I can't go into details right now but I'm looking to be a permanent part of their team for the next several years, maybe even crewing an airplane "in one of the recip classes."

Most racers expect Reno to go away because RARA (Reno Air Race Association) is trying to squeeze every dollar from everyone who attends ... and they are hemhoraging money. We'll see.

RARA has made a lot of changes in personnel from what I seen. The former president is gone and many of the executive positions are no longer paid positions. they have a new insurance carrier and are trying to control costs in the aftermath of the 2011 tragedy. I don't know how profitable the races were this year but as of right now I'm expecting them to go on. there's folks in the jet class talking about creating a smaller venue so we have 2 race events to participate during the year.

 

[GregP]

Would be great news if they kept racing and that is certainly my first desire. Congratulations on staying part of the team, Joe! Glad it looks like a going event and you guys have a year to find some speed. I have some detailed pics of Voodoo and Strega and they have absolutely NO gaps anywhere. The ailerons move against the wingtips and have velcro wear block on them (or that's what it looks like, the fluffy side, not the part with the hooks). No fuselage gaps for no air leaks. The main issue is that in order to get that way, the team puts in weekends for 9 months along with some months of full-time work as the races approach. Not everyone can put in that amount of effort, but you guys didn't get where you are by not working at it, either.

If it is permitted, tell us how much time you guys put into cleaning up the auirframe, I'm not asking for details, just a few hints on the level of effort.

I'll look forward to seeing you there next year, and grampi, too, if he can make it. We can discuss the races and racers at the buffet in the Grand Sierra. I'll probably fly in and watch Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and fly back Monday morning. At least I have that to look forward to next year.

 

[Aozora]

Would be great news if they kept racing and that is certainly my first desire. Congratulations on staying part of the team, Joe! Glad it looks like a going event and you guys have a year to find some speed. I have some detailed pics of Voodoo and Strega and they have absolutely NO gaps anywhere. The ailerons move against the wingtips and have velcro wear block on them (or that's what it looks like, the fluffy side, not the part with the hooks). No fuselage gaps for no air leaks. The main issue is that in order to get that way, the team puts in weekends for 9 months along with some months of full-time work as the races approach. Not everyone can put in that amount of effort, but you guys didn't get where you are by not working at it, either.

If it is permitted, tell us how much time you guys put into cleaning up the auirframe, I'm not asking for details, just a few hints on the level of effort.

I'll look forward to seeing you there next year, and grampi, too, if he can make it. We can discuss the races and rcers at the bugget in the Grand Sierra. I'll probably fly in and watch Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and fly back Monday morning. At least I have that to look forward to next year.

I would love to have the money and time to get to the likes of Reno - one day I will (he says, optimistically 8) ) Anyway, a question; I'm guessing that these aircraft are at the peak of piston engined and airframe performance limits - can anything more be done to push the boundaries with today's technology?

Here's an interesting blast from the past...
View attachment Heston Racer 1943.pdf

How would a reliable Napier Sabre perform in unlimited racing?

View attachment Napier Sabre VII Flight 1945 a.pdf

 

[GregP]

Hi Aozora!

Think thay can be made about 100 mph faster, but the catch is that the prizes won't cover the development costs, so there is NO incentive to do it other than get a surplus plane and go have some fun. It's a rich man's sport and there would need to be incentive to make a big jump in performance possible. Lacking that, they make incremental jumps in speed, and only when required by competition.

I'm embarrassed I typed bugget rather than buffet above, but I never claimed to be a typist!

 

[gumbyk]

These guys are trying to beat 600mph: Home

One problem is the limitations of the propeller operating in the transonic/supersonic regime. The faster the aircraft goes, the more of the propeller blade is operating supersonic, and efficiency decreases. Design a prop to operate supersonically, and you end up with an XF-84; nicknamed the 'thunderscreech' for obvious reasons.

 

[GregP]

Or go 575 mph like the Soviet Bear bomber, with more than 1/3 of the blade supersonic ...

 

[grampi]

Unfortunately I won't be able to make Reno next year...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Would be great news if they kept racing and that is certainly my first desire. Congratulations on staying part of the team, Joe!

Thanks Greg!

Glad it looks like a going event and you guys have a year to find some speed. I have some detailed pics of Voodoo and Strega and they have absolutely NO gaps anywhere. The ailerons move against the wingtips and have velcro wear block on them (or that's what it looks like, the fluffy side, not the part with the hooks). No fuselage gaps for no air leaks. The main issue is that in order to get that way, the team puts in weekends for 9 months along with some months of full-time work as the races approach. Not everyone can put in that amount of effort, but you guys didn't get where you are by not working at it, either.

If it is permitted, tell us how much time you guys put into cleaning up the auirframe, I'm not asking for details, just a few hints on the level of effort.

In our class it depends how indepth the owner wants to go. If you look at the winning jet this year "Fast Company" the owner really put the effort into paint and fuselage work filling seams and gaps. This year my jet was stock and I only plugged a few intake vents that really don't do anything. When I worked for Mike Mangold, we speed taped the crap out of his jet (which many of the other teams do). You could easlily pick up a few knots by doing this but if you use to good speed tape, when you remove it you'lll more than likely take the paint off as well.

I'll look forward to seeing you there next year, and grampi, too, if he can make it. We can discuss the races and racers at the buffet in the Grand Sierra. I'll probably fly in and watch Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and fly back Monday morning. At least I have that to look forward to next year.

The Grand Sierra is usually the place all the racers and team members stay. you'll usually find me at the "Waterfall Bar" at the end of a long stressful day!

 

[GregP]

That's where I was the times I attended, too! Great minds get thirsty in similar places, huh?

See ya' there and we'll swap cell phones before the event.

 

[wheelsup_cavu]

That's where I was the times I attended, too! Great minds get thirsty in similar places, huh?

See ya' there and we'll swap cell phones before the event.

Lol, Are you hoping Joe has a better plan than you?


Wheels

 

[GregP]

Nah Brian ... my new cell phone arrives tomorrow. The last one was a bust for sure! Low signal in the hangar and much the same at home, so it was fairly useless except for traffic reports as I left home. That's BAD for a smart phone. Mine was a moron. The new one should be a LOT better or I'll go back to land lines.

 

[wuzak]

I would love to have the money and time to get to the likes of Reno - one day I will (he says, optimistically 8) ) Anyway, a question; I'm guessing that these aircraft are at the peak of piston engined and airframe performance limits - can anything more be done to push the boundaries with today's technology?

Here's an interesting blast from the past...
View attachment 274674

How would a reliable Napier Sabre perform in unlimited racing?

View attachment 274673

I think that the Sabre could do quite well in air racing, provided that enough cooling capacity is added to the airframe.

The 600mph project that Gumbyk mentions is to be powered by an R-4360. The Sabre should match the R-4360 for power relatively easily (won't need to be tuned to the nth degree) and should still be lighter than the R-4360, even accounting for teh cooling system.