Smiths jaeger mk3b (1 Viewer)

MiTasol · Thursday at 3:46 PM

I got an answer from my friend on the Blenheim clocks and he said

I have a copy of a Dec 1938 Airframe Inventory for a Blenheim Mk IV and this lists three clock options:

Mk II Stores ref. 6A/579

Mk III Stores ref. 6A/581

Mk IIIA Stores ref. 6A/676

You will note the 6A/893 is not in that list and that the Mk IIIA looks very similar but is 12 hour. That said the photos show 24 hour clocks fitted in some aircraft so in service if a 12 hour clock failed and only a 24 hour one was available it would have been fitted. I am guessing that the IIIB is just the 24 hour version of the IIIA.

From AP 1275 dated April 1938 these were in use

Interestingly my 1945 edition has essentially the same chart (on a different page) and mentions the Mk IIIB just once in the text by saying

.

The complete section on clocks can be found at British Instrument documents in section 1

joemc · Thursday at 4:18 PM

MiTasol said:
I got an answer from my friend on the Blenheim clocks and he said

I have a copy of a Dec 1938 Airframe Inventory for a Blenheim Mk IV and this lists three clock options:

Mk II Stores ref. 6A/579

Mk III Stores ref. 6A/581

Mk IIIA Stores ref. 6A/676

You will note the 6A/893 is not in that list and that the Mk IIIA looks very similar but is 12 hour. That said the photos show 24 hour clocks fitted in some aircraft so in service if a 12 hour clock failed and only a 24 hour one was available it would have been fitted. I am guessing that the IIIB is just the 24 hour version of the IIIA.

View attachment 805748

From AP 1275 dated April 1938 these were in use
View attachment 805749

Interestingly my 1945 edition has essentially the same chart (on a different page) and mentions the Mk IIIB just once in the text by saying

View attachment 805754

.View attachment 805753

The complete section on clocks can be found at British Instrument documents in section 1

Man again you have blown me away, that is such great information please thank your friend too, the 24hr clock seems to be quite rare, there's hardly any info in the Konrad knirim book but there is a photo, thanks again I never knew anything about cockpit clocks and now I know a little. Cheers mate

joemc · Thursday at 4:28 PM

Heres a YouTube video of a wartime British path film,
Heart breaking because just a little to the left we might of seen what clock was behind the control column

joemc · Friday at 8:31 AM

MiTasol said:
I got an answer from my friend on the Blenheim clocks and he said

I have a copy of a Dec 1938 Airframe Inventory for a Blenheim Mk IV and this lists three clock options:

Mk II Stores ref. 6A/579

Mk III Stores ref. 6A/581

Mk IIIA Stores ref. 6A/676

You will note the 6A/893 is not in that list and that the Mk IIIA looks very similar but is 12 hour. That said the photos show 24 hour clocks fitted in some aircraft so in service if a 12 hour clock failed and only a 24 hour one was available it would have been fitted. I am guessing that the IIIB is just the 24 hour version of the IIIA.

View attachment 805748

From AP 1275 dated April 1938 these were in use
View attachment 805749

Interestingly my 1945 edition has essentially the same chart (on a different page) and mentions the Mk IIIB just once in the text by saying

View attachment 805754

.View attachment 805753

The complete section on clocks can be found at British Instrument documents in section 1

Hi again

I'm just wondering what the specs on the mk 1 Blenheim, may that have had the mk111b ?
Cheers
Joe

Wurger · Friday at 9:57 AM

J joemc

Each time you want to answer somebody's post please don't hit the "Post replay" button right away. If you use the "Replay" option , seen in the right bottom corner of somebody's post, you quote/paste the post content in the answering window and the cursor is moved a line down automatically. The forum system waits for typing of your replay. So please type your answer and just then hit the "Post replay" button. You will get the one post but not the two separate ones that have to be merged. Also if you replay to a post and there is no more answers to it below you may omit the using of the Replay option and just type your text and hit the "Post replay" button. It will be posted below of the answered post directly. There is no doubt it refers to something else then. If you would like to draw somebodys attention to your post you may use his nick typed next to the "@" sign like I didt in the first line of my post here.

smiles,

joemc · Friday at 12:15 PM

Hi mate I'm sorry about that I struggle navigating these forums lol

joemc · Saturday at 7:19 AM

Here's a better photo of the Blenheim at RAF Duxford

joemc · Saturday at 8:35 AM

MiTasol said:
I got an answer from my friend on the Blenheim clocks and he said

I have a copy of a Dec 1938 Airframe Inventory for a Blenheim Mk IV and this lists three clock options:

Mk II Stores ref. 6A/579

Mk III Stores ref. 6A/581

Mk IIIA Stores ref. 6A/676

You will note the 6A/893 is not in that list and that the Mk IIIA looks very similar but is 12 hour. That said the photos show 24 hour clocks fitted in some aircraft so in service if a 12 hour clock failed and only a 24 hour one was available it would have been fitted. I am guessing that the IIIB is just the 24 hour version of the IIIA.

View attachment 805748

From AP 1275 dated April 1938 these were in use
View attachment 805749

Interestingly my 1945 edition has essentially the same chart (on a different page) and mentions the Mk IIIB just once in the text by saying

View attachment 805754

.View attachment 805753

The complete section on clocks can be found at British Instrument documents in section 1

Would your friend have records for the mk1 Blenheim ?

Thanks mate

Wurger · Saturday at 10:47 AM

joemc said:
Here's a better photo of the Blenheim at RAF Duxford

The Blenheim IV is a restored kite built by the Fairchild in Canada. I would be careful with the assumption that the clock was used for the aircraft type widely. The indicator panel is of the shape used by the Bolingbroke

The era images don't show it there.

Mk.I

MK.IV

Mk.IV Bolingbroke by the Fairchild in 1942

and late Mk.IV Bolingbroke by the Fairchild

the pic source: the net.

Wurger · Saturday at 11:14 AM

And here a couple of shots that showing the indicator panel before the restoration ...

and images taken by our dear friend

Airframes showing that later the cockpit panel was fitted out with the bits missing.

MiTasol · Saturday at 2:51 PM

joemc said:
Would your friend have records for the mk1 Blenheim ?

Thanks mate

Unfortunately no

joemc · Saturday at 3:58 PM

Yeah I have seen these images, unfortunately it doesn't prove or disprove the clock was in or was not in the cockpit, it really doesn't matter it's just interesting for me and im sure it was in something interesting at some point thanks for the help.

Engineman · Sunday at 3:59 AM

Great thread on these clocks!
Aircraft clocks are/were very important for navigation and that is probably the reason they were generally fitted. They were "Valuable and Attractive" items in the RAF, and as such they were individually tracked in the stores system. Like most paper records though, old details are probably lost.
Aircrew wrist watches were similar V&A items and usually an addition to the aircraft clock(s). Often, time checks to the second were made at briefings and the Pilot/Nav would reset their watch at the briefing, then synchronise the aircraft clock on pre-start.
In later years, radio time checks were available and could be used for many navigation purposes. Some military purposes had their own clock timebase, although ZULU (UTC/GMT) time was a general standard. Today, many systems use SatNav based time and modern Nav systems are highly complex, accurate and with multi redundancy. However, on many more basic and legacy transportation, the old clock, compass and map is still used.

Eng

joemc · Sunday at 4:22 AM

I've got an omega 6b/159 and 6b/542 pilot navigator watches fascinating objects.

MiTasol · Sunday at 2:22 PM

The RAF and RCAF also used pocket watches and had a rubber mounting cup on the instrument panels for aircraft that used those instead of clocks.

joemc · 2024-11-18T16:41:28-0500

Hi guys

I'm just wondering why the mk1 and mk4 have the 24hr smiths clock, I know one's been restored, is there any photos of the imperial museum of London Blenheim cockpit photos ?
Can't seem to find any

Wurger · 2024-11-18T17:05:37-0500

Actually the one displayed in the Londone museum in Hendon is the Fairchile Bolingbroke built in the Canada as the Mk.IVT. She was restored as the Blenhein. According to the pic below there was the 12hr clock Mk.IIIA installed. Because the IIIA and IIIB have the same dimensions and shape they used what they could find to fill the hole in the indicator panel. Again any rule or specification.

Sgt Ralph E Havercroft of 604 Squadron, seen from above, at the controls of a Bristol Blenheim Mk. IF.

the pic source: the Facebook

joemc · 2024-11-18T17:17:21-0500

Hi mate that's a great photo, so I'm still confused did they use both 12 and 24hr during ww2 ?
Am I just finding photos of restored aircraft, I ask because I thought the mk 111b was rarer than the mk 111a

joemc · 2024-11-18T17:20:43-0500

This photo is from a video on YouTube is this the duxford one ?

Wurger · 2024-11-18T17:52:00-0500

joemc said:
I'm still confused did they use both 12 and 24hr during ww2 ?

Yes. They did. Although it is quite difficult to state which clock type was more popular for sure but the MK.IIIA seems to be the most common. IMHO it could have been caused by the operator the aircraft was built for. In the Great Britain and the USA for instance the 12hr clock could be more popular due to the Measurment System they have been using until today. In the Canada, Australia, France for example, the 24hr one seems to be more suitable. Here in Poland we use the 24hr day for instance.

joemc said:
Am I just finding photos of restored aircraft, I ask because I thought the mk 111b was rarer than the mk 111a

As I have posted it a couple of posts above ... the Mk.IIIB seems to be more rare than the Mk.IIIA. I think it is because of the point I mentioned a line above. It happens quite often that the item that was very popular is not avaialabe today anymore while the more rare one can be still found.

Smiths jaeger mk3b (1 Viewer)

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