Terminology and engine data

tomo pauk · Feb 2, 2018

Some Merlins:

tomo pauk · Sep 27, 2018

Re-post of a table:

tomo pauk · Sep 29, 2018

Ivan1GFP said:
Hello Tomo Pauk,
What you are stating is not really in agreement with what I have found elsewhere though the numbers you are quoting are fairly close.
There were other engines between the R-2800-21 found on the very early D and the R-2800-59 installed initially in the D-20 at a lower power rating than the R-2800-59 installed in the D-25 onwards. What I am looking for are the differences between the D-23 and D-25.
Although their Military Ratings are the same, the Take-Off Ratings are different and the SEFC should indicate the differences which is why I am looking for it. The T-O Rating is typically also 15 minutes duration which seems to make it functionally the equivalent of a Military Rating at Sea Level.

Would you be so kind to post the data you have on the -59 that are in collision with what I've posted? It is pretty hard to answer on vague stuff. P-47D used -21 and -59.
FWIW, please take a look:

tomo pauk · Feb 11, 2020

Not everday's stuff:

Shortround6 · Feb 11, 2020

Just for clarification, as I am sure that Tomo knows this, the chart is for the 14R engine which was much more heavily constructed than the K and included a center bearing on the Crankshaft.

Bretoal2 · May 7, 2020

Shortround6 said:
Just for clarification, as I am sure that Tomo knows this, the chart is for the 14R engine which was much more heavily constructed than the K and included a center bearing on the Crankshaft.

And two-speed supercharger, plus greatly increased finning. Introduced as 14 N-50 at Paris Salon, 1938.

I think that 14-N series were more produced in France than 14 K, but the latter were widely licensed.

Simon Thomas · Mar 20, 2021

I found this today, hopefully it fits this thread.
Attached is the type test requirements of the U . S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AERONAUTICS BRANCH published in the Air Commerce Bulletin Vol. 1, No. 17, 1 March 1930.
Bulletin Vol.1 can be found here: Air Commerce Bulletin v. 1 1929-30.
The referenced Bulletin 7-A can be found here: Aeronautics bulletin no. 7A 1934.

tomo pauk · Nov 30, 2021

The DB 600 series of engines. the A and B were with S/C geared for low altitude ('Bodenlader'), the C & D were for normal/high flight altitudes. Not sure whether the Ga and Ha ('normal' altitude) made it in production before being supplanted with 601A. The power made by those is about equal to the 601A of the time, despite still having carburetors. Note that DB was not shy of rating the 'altitude' engines for 1 min for take off, so those engines were still very usable to power heavy aircraft, like the bombers of the day.

Jumo 211A, that powered Ju 87B and R, aka the B1 and R1 once B2 and R2 emerged:

tomo pauk · Feb 11, 2022

Oldie but a goldie - data sheets for the different DB 605 versions:

Galahad · Feb 13, 2022

tomo pauk said:
Oldie but a goldie - data sheets for the different DB 605 versions:

Hi Tomo,
thanks for posting, that's a very useful overview! A note: on a German forum I've read, this - obviously post-war compiled - documents have a bug. When it comes to "Verdichtungsgrad: Zylinderreihen links/rechts" they swapped the correct CRs.

Left bank (view from cockpit to prop) always has the lower CR; mentioned also in the book "Flugmotoren und Strahltriebwerke", Bernard & Graefe Verlag.

Greetings,
Galahad

tomo pauk · Jan 6, 2023

Jumo 210G, engine that powered He 112B, Fw 187A and few series of the Bf 109s before the Emil arrived:

tomo pauk · Jan 6, 2023

Some stuff from Munich:

132H:

tomo pauk · Jan 7, 2023

Once the DB 603 is debugged and a big S/C is installed instead of the one with 280mm impeller: a 603E materialzes:

MW30: 30% of methanol. EW50: 50% of ethanol instead of methanol. EW30: 30% of ethanol (can't be used on this engine, per 2nd pic)

mack8 · Jan 7, 2023

Oh wow, that's a fantastic topic. Well if it isn't much, i am still coming to grips with converting ata to psi to inch Hg, i have found a very useful table but it only goes to about 1,80 ata/+11 psi. Is there something going to +25 psi by any chance?

Also, very curious, what's the PS rating for the BMW-801D-2 derated to 1.35 ata?

tomo pauk · Jan 7, 2023

mack8 said:
Is there something going to +25 psi by any chance?

1 ata is worth about 14.5 psi.
+25 psi = 2.8 ata then?

tomo pauk · Jan 7, 2023

mack8 said:
Also, very curious, what's the PS rating for the BMW-801D-2 derated to 1.35 ata?

It was also derated wrt. the max allowed RPM, for all the power settings. restrictions ended by October of 1942, when BMW finally debugged it.
Max rpm allowed was 2450, boost indeed 1.35 ata. We know for a fact the power made at 2400 rpm and 1.32 ata, ie. 1520 PS at 700m (low gear), and 1320 at 5300m (see this post). Another data point is 2700 rpm and 1.42 ata, making 1730 PS and 1440 PS at 600m and 5700m, respectively.

We can expect, for a derated 801D, a bit above 1550 (certainly under 1600 PS) down low, and ~1350 PS at ~5400m? Basically, similar to the fully rated 801C down low, and a bit better than the 801C at higher altitudes. Note that I'm not aware of 801C power figures for 2700 rpm in 2nd gear - official data I have allows only for 2550 rpm in 2nd gear.

See here for 2700 rpm 801C in 2nd gear flying in late 1941.

Engineman · Jan 7, 2023

tomo pauk said:
Oldie but a goldie - data sheets for the different DB 605 versions:

Good to post these! However, it should be noted that the first 11 sheets of data there are a post-war resume of DB engines compiled for the info of the Allied investigation teams. Those sheets are simplistic in parts and not original data. But, the other "Leistungsblatt" sheets are original detailed DB briefing sheets for the engines at the stated dates and issue numbers, some of which are unfortunately missing.

Eng

tomo pauk · Jan 7, 2023

Engineman said:
Good to post these! However, it should be noted that the first 11 sheets of data there are a post-war resume of DB engines compiled for the info of the Allied investigation teams. Those sheets are simplistic in parts and not original data. But, the other "Leistungsblatt" sheets are original detailed DB briefing sheets for the engines at the stated dates and issue numbers, some of which are unfortunately missing.

Eng

It goes without saying that I'd be grateful for any original doc people can provide here (or at some another place on-line)

Engineman · Jan 7, 2023

tomo pauk said:
Once the DB 603 is debugged and a big S/C is installed instead of the one with 280mm impeller: a 603E materialzes:View attachment 701451 View attachment 701452 View attachment 701453 View attachment 701454

MW30: 30% of methanol. EW50: 50% of ethanol instead of methanol. EW30: 30% of ethanol (can't be used on this engine, per 2nd pic)

Thank You very much for posting this Tomo!
This is the first and most important part of the Motorenkarte for the new DB 603 E, EB u. EC. I think this will have been very late 1944.
You can see the very similar approach to the DB 605 DB u. DC development with the different ratings and engine designation to match different fuels and with/without MW50.
References are also given for the requirement to adjust the engine for some of the possible combinations.
So, thanks for posting! Is it possible to post the image of the front cover please?

Cheers

Eng

tomo pauk · Jan 7, 2023

Engineman said:
So, thanks for posting! Is it possible to post the image of the front cover please?

Of course:

Terminology and engine data

Creator of Interesting Threads

Creator of Interesting Threads

Creator of Interesting Threads

Creator of Interesting Threads

Attachments

Major General

Senior Airman

Senior Airman

Attachments

Creator of Interesting Threads

Creator of Interesting Threads

Attachments

Airman

Creator of Interesting Threads

Creator of Interesting Threads

Creator of Interesting Threads

Airman 1st Class

Creator of Interesting Threads

Creator of Interesting Threads

Staff Sergeant

Creator of Interesting Threads

Staff Sergeant

Creator of Interesting Threads

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads