The eternal H-75 cockpit color question...!!! (for me)

[le_steph40]

Hello,

Some of my future projects are French and a Finnish H-75 (CUw-560).
I would like to have your opinion on the infos I found and the way that I understand it.
First, regarding Finnish Hawks: the first info I found was given to me by K. Stenman; the H-75s firstly delivered to Norway and seized by the Germans to sell them to Finland were not painted (metal finish) and cockpit probably not too. But he thinks that is possible the color could be repainted in grey RLM63 for some of them.
As we can see below, the color under the rear windows seems to be very clear, probably alu stripped of his Lionoil Prussian Blue varnish.
(photo source: the web)

439 will become CUw-560 in FAF


CUw-560


Other Finnish H-75s


Regarding the H-75s delivered to France, it seems that they were delivered with the cockpit in yellow/green color. This color was apparently applicated over the varnish...

However, it seems that the Curtiss standards recommended (and applied) yellow/green color over the varnish for the cockpit and others structure elements... Except in the case of a specific request made by the Norway...???

If I'm not mistaken, French H-75 cockpits and under the rear windows were in yellow/green (not interior green) and the informations found on the web and several books tend to confirm this point.
But regarding the Finnish H-75s, I don't succed to define the good option (if it exists ).
- Cockpit alu and under the rear windows too
- Cockpit in yellow/green but under the rear windows in alu
- Other option I found: yellow/green (or green zinc chromate) cockpit and alu seat !

 

[Greg Boeser]

I've never seen that shot of the H75A-6 in Norwegian markings. Awesome!

 

[cammerjeff]

While I cannot say absolutely, I have never seen an A/C made by a large US manufacturer of the era with non painted internals. They were usually painted with Zinc Chromate primer, early on the yellow/green version, and later during the war what was reffered to a Zinc Chromate Green that does not show the yellowish hue and looks very like a dull green (not matte)

I would think the internal cockpit surfaces would be the yellow green Zinc Chromate.

But I do not have an opinion on what color the surfaces would be under the rear view windows, sorry

 

[special ed]

As a trivia point, when I was in the USAF reserve, 1963-65, if zinc chromate touch up was required, a trip across the hangar to supply provided spray cans with white Krylon labels covered with various govt. spec numbers. At the time, I was heavily into plastic models and some of it went home. Comparison tests with commercial purchase from hardware store gave the exact same results and color.

 

[SaparotRob]

Did any of those cans have "no step" labels?

 

[Wurger]

The pic below suggests that the cockpits were of quite dark colour rather. IMHO that could be the Curtiss Cockpit Green or the RLM63. But it wasn't the ZCY or the silver rather. It seems there were silver painted devices in the cockpit if you see the levers in the pic.

Regarding the colour behind the rear windows ... the image below may indicate using of the cockpit colour or a kind of grey there as well.

But these two shots indicate that the colour could be of the camo coat.

the pic source: Modelarstwo z pasją • Zobacz wątek - H-75 Hawk , Special Hobby, 1:32

 

[Wurger]

I have found two scans of the CU-562 .. the camouflage looked quite fresh. The colour tinge behind the rear glass window cover seems to be quite similar to the yellow band and front of the engine cowl. It may indicate the yellow pigment as the ingridient of the coat there.

Here two scans of the CU-560 . The first one is the same you posted above while the second one was taken in 1948. Although the 1948 coat seems to be darker than the earlier one, I would say that's the same but just got the dark tone because of the time. But it is not a silver or NMF rather if you compare with the metal tinge seen on the engine cowl where the paint peeled off.

the pic source: Curtiss Hawk 75A2 GC I/4 No115 U015 White 13 flown by Jules Joire Dec 1939

 

[Wurger]

Here a link to a thread we had on the forum some time ago ...

1/48 Curtis Hawk 75 A-2 - Winter War / Eastern War WWII

Username: Chris Brown First name: Chris Category: Intermediate Scale: 1/48 Manufacturer: Hobbycraft Model Type: Curtis Hawk 75 A-2 Axis Hawk kit Aftermarket addons: Eduard PE and canopy masks, Quickboost engine and maybe a vac canopy and I will probably use some resin bits from a True...

ww2aircraft.net

 

[waroff]

as I wrote in another forum, Curtiss had it own specifications;

export finish specifications
- S-516,
- S - 517: finish of export airplane
army finish specifications
- S - 615: finish of p36 airplanes and P40 airplanes

on factory drawings of H75 A1 to A9 fuselage, the specified finish is Curtiss S-517
for the P36 it's the S-615
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what each finish specification indicates:


S-517
1.1 this specification covers the requirements for finishing Export airplanes. Items marked thus (**) must be covered specifically on each contract.
......

5. DETAIL REQUIREMENTS:

5.52 Interior Metal Parts and Surfaces: the finish for interior(unexposed) parts and surfaces (wings, fuselage, control surfaces) shall consist of one of the following schemes, unless a specific scheme is specified in the contract.

- 5.521 All alclad 24ST used as skin covering for wing, fuselage, tail surfaces, and other parts fabricated in the heat treated conditions to be coated both sides with blue Lionoil shop coating, or equivalent, prior to fabrication and assembly. After assembly all Lionoil exposed on exterior to be removed to leave natural alclad as the exterior finish. Lionoil to be left on the interior.
.........
- 5.525 The interior of the entire fuselage, and parts enclosed therein to be given one coat of the following mixture to produce uniform and satisfactory appearance:

COCKPIT COATING FORMULA
One gallon zinc chromate primer
one-tenth gallon black enamel
Two gallon of Toluol
4 ounces aluminium paste
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

below: fuselage H75 A3 N°2xx. starboard side between frame 1 & 3, we can see the yellow green sprayed over the Prussian Blue Lionoil as specified by Curtiss S-517/5.525

H75A2 n° 151, windshield frame & fuselage door
the clamp on the frame is for the bowden cable of jettisonable canopy release

the french Hawk were delivered in natural metal finish, blue Lionoil was removed from exterior surfaces before delivery.
Sometime the area of fuselage under the rear window was unpainted when camouflage paint was applied,
it remains NMF in this case.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


army finish specifications
S - 615
**C-1c. Yellow green finish. the yellow green finish coating specified for general interior finish shall be prepared as follows:--

Zinc chromate primer 1.0 Gallon
Enamel, black 0.1 Gallon
Aluminium paste 4.0 ounces
Toluol 2.0 Gallon
......

**E-10 Finish for interior parts and surfaces.
**E-10a. The finish for interior parts and surfaces shall be as follows: --A greater number of coat of primer or finish may be added at the discretion of the manufacturer;
**E-10b. Wings, control surfaces, engine mount and fuselage, excepting compartment for personnel and luggage.

**E-10b (1). One thin coat of metal primer and one coat of yellow green finish before assembly and one coat of yellow green finish after assembly.

**E-10c. Cockpits. Cockpits shall be finished with one coat of primer and one coat of yellow green finish before assembly and one coat of yellow green finish after assembly.
**E-10d. Omitted(Passenger Compartments);
**E-10e. Cargo and Luggage compartments.These compartments shall be finished with one coat of primer and one coat of yellow green finish before assembly and one coat of yellow green finish after assembly.

from 1943, curtiss prescribes that the yellow green must be tinted to matches the interior green 611
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you see, the cockpit interior surface was yellow-green unless that specified in the contract of customer.
If the finish type seems knew for the french hawk, it is unknow for other customer

 

[jimmaas]

Here are pics from the web of the Hawk 75N, the Thai fixed gear early variant, which shows some kind of zinc chromate interior. In addition, the Iranian (with Norwegian parts?) seems to have the zinc chromate under the rear glazing. I don't think that is normal.