wich color should I use for this zero?

[aurelien wolff]

Hello, I got the tamiya A6M3 for my club and plan to do the no.238 but I'm unsure about the color I should since it apparently isn't a white zero (?), tamiya also give the choice between red and black number, wich one should I use?

Thanks for your answers!

 

[fubar57]

Tamiya XF-76 is a greyish green colour. It might be close to early colours

 

[Wurger]

Recommended colours ...

1. AS-29 IJN Gray Green
2. AS-21 IJN Dark Green 2 or XF-70 IJN Dark Green
3. AS-12 Bare Metal Silver
4. XF-71 Cokpit Green
5. X-18 Semi Gloss Black

 

[aurelien wolff]

I've seen people talking about grey for this color too.

 

[Wurger]

I've seen people talking about grey for this color too.

Because it was the grey colour but of a slightly greenish tinge. The paint is written as clearly as day in the diagram ... AS-29.

 

[Wurger]

BTW .. here is an image of the Zeros of the Iwakuni Naval Air Group , the Tamiya based on for the profile rendition in the kit instruction.

 

[Wurger]

Additionally the Hasegawa euggests the Green ( Mitsubishi ) colour for their kit ... the H61 is a Gunze paint.

 

[aurelien wolff]

and there's this from aviation of japan, it's ...complicated shall I say Zero Colours - Again!

 

[mjfur]

 

[Wurger]

and there's this from aviation of japan, it's ...complicated shall I say Zero Colours - Again!

Actually finding the correct colour is really a trouble not only because none of Japaneses can say what the tinge it was but also because of the weather conditions the planes were servicing in. And that for sure affected the paint tone. Personally I leaning towards the the J3 Hai Iro for metal surfaces and the J.N Grey for the fabric skinned parts. But the IJN Grey (Mitsubishi) and the IJN Aircraft can be as well.

 

[aurelien wolff]

View attachment 848079

View attachment 848080

that one actually seems to be white rather than gray, I've also seen ash grey being quote , ammo mig does have it in the atom range .

 

[aurelien wolff]

Actually finding the correct colour is really a trouble not only because none of Japaneses can say what the tinge it was but also because of the weather conditions the planes were servicing in. And that for sure affected the paint tone. Personally I leaning towards the the J3 Hai Iro for metal surfaces and the J.N Grey for the fabric skinned parts. But the IJN Grey (Mitsubishi) and the IJN Aircraft can be as well.

View attachment 848081

while me making research on aviation of japan blog , my reaction was: "this is as complicated as lluftwaffe late war schemes"

 

[Wayne Little]

The First and second colours in Wurgers post #10 are in the range of the Zero colour, depending on being New to time in the field and exposure to elements in the Pacific theatre starting with a Gloss finish to a Satin/semi-gloss to Matte finish over time where it can take on a whitish chalky appearance.
The fabric surfaces would be close to the third image, again a bit of variation can occur.
The cowling would be a Blue-Black colour as the A6M3 Model 22 was a Mitsubishi built aircraft.

 

[Wurger]

that one actually seems to be white rather than gray, I've also seen ash grey being quote , ammo mig does have it in the atom range .

Please pay your attention to that it is a wreck that was under "a cloud" for a quite long time. If these are the remnants of the kite seen in the colour image so no wonder the orginal paint was faded a lot.

 

[flypaper2222]

ZERO CAMOUFLAGE SCHEMES (Rev. & Edited 5/7/2013)
FACTORY APPLICATION OF
PAINT SCHEMES FOR THE MITSUBISHI
TYPE ZERO CARRIER FIGHTER:
1939 - 1945
BY JAMES F. LANSDALE
Introduction​

Conflicting accounts in the literature regarding factory applied paint schemes on the Mitsubishi A6M series Type 0 carrier fighter (Zero) led to a study and examination of existing Zero relics. Historians and scale-model builders frequently cite a variety of publications as legitimate sources for World War II Japanese aircraft paint schemes. The sources cited, including many published in Japan, often quote each other or present unreliable interpretations of color values from monochromatic photographs. Substantiating evidence is seldom presented or documented. The color values of factory applied paint schemes on the Japanese Zero presented in this report have been obtained by the systematic analyzes of documented Zero relics in the collections of private individuals, museums, and the United States National Archives. Supporting material has also been obtained from World War II intelligence reports of captured Japanese aircraft, field notes of Japanese aircraft wreckage made by Dr. Charles Darby, and a corroborated statement by the chief designer of the Zero, Jiro Horikoshi. The study established two distinctive factory applied color variations of one overall exterior finish on Zeros manufactured from 1939 through the early part of 1943. Also documented are two distinctive factory applied variations of a two-color camouflage scheme introduced on Zeros around March 1943.

Type Zero Carrier Fighter Paint Schemes​

The Mitsubishi aircraft company's first Zero paint scheme, herein designated M-01, has been described as a glossy pale olive-gray or "a glossy grey-green." It covered all exterior surfaces to the exclusion of the engine cowling and upper canopy deck aft of the cockpit. In time, the exposed surfaces faded and weathered to "a dove gray color" or a flat "pale gull gray." The cowling and the rear fuselage deck under the canopy were painted a glossy gray-black (Note: A few canopy deck samples examined were reported to have been left in the red primer paint). Author Donald W. Thorpe labeled this scheme "O4" and described the colors as "medium-grey N.9" overall with "black-grey N.7" cowlings (Thorpe:1977, p.32). Jiro Horikoshi, chief designer of the Zero, described the first Zero prototype as being painted "a dimly-shining ash green (hairyokushoku) except the engine cowling, which was black" (Horikoshi:1970, p.61).
Preserved Mitsubishi metal and fabric relics recovered from three separate Mitsubishi Type O carrier fighters that had crashed during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor were examined. One of these cashed at Fort Kamehameha (AI-154), another at Kaneohe Bay Naval Air Station (BI-151 ?), and the third on the island of Niihau. The glossy pale olive-gray on the metal portions of these aircraft was an exact match to Munsell color notation 7.8Y 5.5/2.5. No exact match was found within the Federal Standard Colors (FS) 595 B samples. However, the color value of these aircraft may be placed within the range of FS-24201 and FS-16350 with the closer match being FS-16350. Weathered pieces examined from the cowling and canopy deck areas of Zero remains in the John Sterling collection were a black-gray color which closely matched the darkness of FS-25042 and the hue of FS-26081. Researcher James I. Long concluded that the canopy deck samples were more of a "black-green" color most like FS-14050. All parts from the wings, fuselages, and tail surfaces of two Zeros (models 32 and 22) examined had faded and/or oxidized to produce a chalky pale gray similar in appearance to FS-36357 or FS-36495. It was also discovered that oxidized paint samples obtained from Nakajima production Zeros (model 21) mimicked those produced by the Mitsubishi company.

The similarity in the appearance of the two weathered schemes influenced many previous investigators to conclude that all Zero finishes had the same chalky-gray color. However, when the oxidized samples from Mitsubishi produced Zeros (models 32 and 22) were lightly buffed, the pale olive-gray color beneath the oxidation was an exact match to FS-26350. Another oxidized sample, possibly from a Nakajima produced Zero model 21, had a hue between Munsell 5Y 5/2 and 5Y 5/4 or somewhat like FS-20277. One sample, an access panel in the Darby collection, had an interesting variation. A coating similar to varnish had been applied over the original paint. The overall effect of the sizing was to give a golden cast to the color beneath. It is possible that this clear coat had been applied after 1945 as a preservative by the collector.

A slightly different overall paint scheme, herein designated N-01, was applied by the Nakajima company to its Zero production run. One preserved sample of rudder fabric in the National Archives Collection was obtained from a Nakajima production Zero model 21 (s.n.6544) recovered from the Russell Islands in February 1943. This component may be described as being a glossy "medium gray" color. The gray was matched to Munsell color notation 5 GY 5/1. No exact equivalent was found on the FS colors key, however, it was between FS-16314 and 16251. It is probable that Nakajima did not always over paint the gray doped fabric control surfaces after attaching them to the main aircraft components. Several exterior metal components of Nakajima manufactured Zero model 21s produced prior to March 1943 were most like FS-24201. A weathered and soiled metal sample from a Nakajima A6M2-N float fighter ("Rufe") more closely matched the color of FS-20277. Two different metal skin samples of Nakajima production Zeros, were provided by Marine ace Ken Walsh and Navy veteran Bill Scarborough to researcher and aviation author Robert C. Mikesh. Both samples were found by Mikesh to be an exact match to FS-16160. However, noted aviation artist Roy Grinnell matched the Walsh sample to FS-24201. Oxidized and faded samples of weathered Nakajima relics had the appearance of a chalky gray color similar to FS-36492. When the oxidized Nakajima samples were lightly buffed, the color revealed was more often a matched FS-26350 or FS-24201. Another distinguishing feature of the Nakajima applied finish was the fuselage hinomaru. Nakajima began to apply a 75 mm white outline to the fuselage hinomaru from mid 1942. Samples examined from the cowling and rear canopy deck of Nakajima produced Zeros were a close match to FS-27038.

According to Dr. Rene J. Francillon, the Imperial Japanese Naval Headquarters issued a directive, dated 3 July 1943, outlining a two-color paint scheme to be applied to Zero fighters at the factory (Francillon:1967, p. 12). The alleged directive specified that the Zeros be painted a "dark green on all upper surfaces and light grey" on all lower surfaces (Francillon, op. cit.). The two-color camouflage schemes applied at the factory by Mitsubishi and Nakajima have herein been designated M-02 and N-02 respectively. Relics from Zeros produced by each company in the two-color scheme evidenced variations in the application and color of the camouflage. Photographic evidence suggests that the new, factory-applied, two-tone color scheme began to be used by Mitsubishi and Nakajima in late March or early April 1943. This date much earlier than specified in the document cited by Francillon.

The upper surface colors were often an exact match to the one described by Thorpe as "black-green N.1." FS-24077 or FS-24052 closely matched the dark green of the Mitsubishi manufactured samples examined. The upper surface color on Nakajima components matched FS-24094 or 24077. No samples from Zero model 52 engine cowlings were examined and it is presumed that the cowling colors applied by each company remained unchanged. Contemporary photographs illustrate that the cowlings were either glossy or dull in appearance. The Mitsubishi factories continued to apply the pale olive-gray color (FS-26350) to the lower surface areas of their production Zeros. The Nakajima company also appears to have followed the same procedure. However, it should also be noted that the two companies did not demarcate meeting of the upper surface color separation from the lower surface color in the same manner.

In scheme M-02, the Mitsubishi company marked the separation of the two colors along a straight horizontal line proceeding aft in a straight line from the wing root to the tip of the tail cone. Nakajima, utilizing scheme N-02, separated the two colors along a slightly curving or slanting line upward from the wing root to the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. The color separation then continued aft and downward from the trailing edge of the stabilizer to the tip of the tail cone. Fuselage hinomaru were outlined with 75 mm white borders by both companies. The upper wing hinomaru were also outlined in white to a measured width of 75 mm or 30 mm. Contrary to some statements in the literature, the more narrow outlining (i.e.30 mm width) of the wing hinomaru was not merely an optical illusion created by their larger diameter when compared to those of the fuselage. Frequently the white outlining to the hinomaru was painted over in the field with a darker color and, as evidenced by many contemporary photographs, the darker over-painting of the white outline is imperceptible.

Different camouflage patterns in various colors were often applied in the field to the original one color overall schemes (M-01 or N-01) beginning around the end of February 1943. The research of field applied variations of Zero camouflage is best accomplished by studying wartime photographs and noting the particular pattern of dark green color over the original M-01 or N-01 factory finish. As previously stated, Mitsubishi and Nakajima did not introduce their respective two color schemes on their factory lines until the spring of 1943. A simple test for a field application of a darker upper surface color can be done by examining the area of the canopy framework of a Zero shown in a photograph. If the canopy framework appears not to be camouflaged in the darker shade of the upper surface paint then the scheme in question is most likely to have been field applied.

ADDENDUM:

YOKOSUKA KAIGUN KOKUTAI REPORT NO.0266​

The Yokosuka Kaigun Kokutai carried out a series of research experiments testing camouflage schemes for the Zero between November 1941 and February 1942. Report No.0266 "Research on Camouflage for the Type Zero Carrier Fighter" contains information which validates and supplements the foregoing report. A copy of Yokosuka Kaigun Kokutai Report No.0266 was provided to this author by noted Japanese aviation expert and artist Shigeru Nohara. Excerpts of material gleaned from this document are as follows:

Color Stated in Report No.0266​	FS Equivalents According To:​
Official IJN Color No.​	Color Description​	Lansdale​	Nohara​
(Not listed, but described as" J3 ash-gray color/'hairo' leaning slightly toward caramel color/'ameiro'."​	glossy "J3 gray toward amber."	FS-24201 to FS-16350 or FS-10277 to FS-16160 (?)	No comment​
J2​	blue-gray	FS-26307 or FS-36314	FS-36314
J3​	gray	FS-36357	FS-36357
D1​	dark black-green	FS-34052 or FS-34084	FS-34036
D2​	black-green	FS-34077	FS-34092

On page 3 of Yokosuka Kaigun Kokutai Report No.0266 ,dated 25 February 1942, appears the statement "Presently used color of the Type Zero carrier fighter is J3 (gray) toward amber with luster." This statement may be a technicians description of a color which varied from olive-gray (FS-14201/16350) and, perhaps, to gray-browns (FS-10277/16160). It is now possible to state with a higher degree of certainty that the Type Zero carrier fighters in schemes M-01 and N-01 did not leave the production lines in the overall light gray or light blue-gray livery in which they have often been portrayed on models and in art work.

FS595a 36357.....J3 Gray