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Steamed_Banana
Staff Sergeant
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- Sep 29, 2025
Was Saburo Sakai assigned to the Tianan Air Group?
Yes he is quoted several times in this series.
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Was Saburo Sakai assigned to the Tianan Air Group?
They could have also scrounged portable O2 systems from bomber crews - it was the Type-A4 "walk around system".If I recall, they would scrounge the O² systems from wrecked P-39s when they could.
Tainan Kokutai became 251st Kokutai in November. 4th Kokutai was a bomber unit. Interestingly, Tainan Kokutai had absorbed the fighter buntai of 4th Kokutai in April.
They could have also scrounged portable O2 systems from bomber crews - it was the Type-A4 "walk around system".
My experience as a young non-smoker, I could effectively operate in the 12~14000 MSL altitudes without oxygen in daylight. I never tried above about 12K at night. No headaches or post flight issues.
Smokers? I would cruise on down to Reno or Vegas at 8~10K and one by one they fell asleep. Pretty soon it was just me.
I bring this up because smoking was just about universal in WWII.
The dry adiabatic lapse rate is 3 degrees per 1000'That's a really interesting point about smoking. I think it also may depend somewhat on where you are from, i.e. if you are from the swampland of Louisiana you may have a bit less endurance in the thin air than if you are from Colorado, or say, the highlands of Scotland, or Kenya.
I would also note, operating in a flight or walking around is one thing, pulling 4-6G turns amidst exhausting life or death air combat may be another.
I'm not sure about the effects of being at the equator and in higher temperature, though maybe that doesn't matter at altitude..?
As you know, the U.S. military was notorious for "scrounging". This is not to say that other militaries didn't, but some of the stuff the Americans did was the stuff of legend, like stealing an Ice Cream machine from an aircraft carrier for their submarine, or swapping "goods" for an Airacobra's 37mm cannon that was installed on a PT boat. There is most certainly a very long list of "transactions" that transpired that went undocumented, unless briefly noted in a diary or perhaps a logbook or rarer still, captured in a photograph. One such event would be in Europe during the winter of 44/45, where a group of JG27 was waiting for winter camo paint that was long over-due. Not willing to wait any longer, they bartered with a local panzer group for camo paint (which would send modelling purists into fits if they found out).I would really like to know if they did something like that, as the P-400s seemed to have performed differently (a bit better, eventually) at New Guinea than at Guadalcanal. That might help explain it. The other factor could be the improved fuel and increased boost / overboosting etc.
At this point, stop and appreciate the entrance of the Imperial Japanese Army into the equation in late '42, as the Army was not interested in assisting the Navy. The Army was preoccupied with territorial operations on mainland Asia and assumed the Navy had all well in hand in their Maritime field of operations.
As the situation in the Pacific became complicated, the Navy ate crow and asked the Army for assistance, to which the Army resisted initially. It took a monumental effort of statesmanship in Tokyo to eventually motivate the Army to move assets to the New Guinea area to assist the Navy.
The British were receiving pre-Dec 7 commitments by FDR, In May 1942 Arnold and Tower were on their to GB to re-negotiate the agreed allocations, things were 'tense' in Middle East.Ok so tomorrow, and / or maybe over this weekend we can discuss the period of Jan-March 1943, via this book
View attachment 893512
This three month period includes the famous battle of the Bismarck Sea, which was just recently brought up in another thread. It's also when the Japanese Army Air Force - and the Oscar - really gets into the fight in New Guinea. These are still entirely Ki-43-I, with the two bladed propeller etc. rather incredibly. The Japanese Navy air force is still present and by this time is mostly using the newer A6M3 with a couple of subtypes.
On the Allied side, the number of P-38s increase, and some P-38G are introduced into the fight. The 49th FG is still present with a mix of P-40E and K, a few more of the latter trickling in. A few newer P-39s are also coming in but they are still using a lot of P-400s and P-39Ds. Some B-24Ds are now being used in Theater more regularly, but the B-17s are still the E and F types. Some slightly newer B-25D are replacing the older C type, and they are still using the A-20A type Boston bombers, which barely have any armor, but apparently due to their speed they don't take a lot of combat losses compared to the more heavily armed and better protected B-25s and B-26s.
Allied losses for this period were 97 aircraft:
11 x P-38 Lightning, 6 in air combat
11 x P-40 Kittyhawk / Warhawk, 2 in air combat
10 x P-39 and P-400 Airacobras, 0 in air combat (!!)
11 x B-24 Liberator, 5 in air combat
10 x B-17 Fortress, 5 in air combat
9 x B-25 Mitchell, 3 in air combat
5 x B-26 Marauder, 2 in air combat
4 x A-20A, 1 possibly to air combat
5 x C-47
4 x Beaufighter
3 x Beaufort
3 x Hudson
3 x Wirraway
and 4 'Other', including a DH-84, a Catalina, an Anson, and an F-4
So a total of 32 fighters and 39 bombers lost, of which 8 fighters and 15-16 bombers were shot down in air combat. Maybe some more of the other types.
Some of the Allied bomber losses were to AA which seems to be getting more dangerous in this period. Some were also destroyed on the ground by bombing raids.
Japanese losses for this period were 62 aircraft:
25 x Ki-43-I Oscars, 19 in air combat
21 x A6M Zeros, 18 in air combat
1 x Ki-45 Nick fighter (in air combat, victim of a B-24)
6 x D3A Val, 3 in air combat
3 x G4M Betty, 1 in air combat
3 x Ki-48 Lily, all 3 in air combat
2 x Ki-21 Sally bomber
1 x G3M Nell bomber
Of the Oscars shot down, 4 were by P-38s, 4 by bomber gunners, 9 to "US fighters"
Of the Zeros shot down, 6 were by P-38s, 5 by bomber gunners, 3 to "US fighters"
all three of the Vals and all three of the Lilys were also shot down by "US fighters"
"US Fighters" in this case means a mix of P-40s and P-39s, mostly the former, but we'll look at the specific cases. P-40 pilots from the 49th FG made about 4 times as many claims as the P-39 pilots in the same combats. But in some cases it's hard to tell who got what.
The Japanese losses were still lower than Allied, but they lost a lot more fighters in air combat. A total of 47 Japanese fighters were lost, a bit more than double all the previous 3 month periods (except May-Jun which include Coral Sea) in which the Japanese lost 20-25 fighters. Of those 47, 37 fighters were lost in air combat, 10 by P-38s, 9 by heavy and medium bomber gunners, and 12 by P-40s and P-39s. They lost 15 bombers of which 7 to P-40s and P-39s.
So, interestingly, on the one hand the Japanese pilots were still doing a better job of the US of not crashing on takeoff and landing, getting lost in storms or in the fog, or running into mountains than the Allies, (the Allies are getting better about all this, but still having problems) but on the other hand, the Japanese were clearly now getting the worst of it in the air to air combat. That is a big change from 1942, especially early 1942 when they clearly had the upper hand against the very inexperienced Allied units. At this point, all the Allied combat fighter and bomber units had significant experience, and I think that is the biggest difference - because for the most part they were still using the same types of aircraft! Both sides are ramping up the numbers, the Japanese Army starting to take the lead in the fighting here on the Japanese side, but the Navy still contributing quite a bit. The P-38 was starting to play an important role, but not yet so much in the sense that it was vastly better in air combat, rather because of it's range. This is particularly clear during the fighting during the Battle of Bismarck Sea.
Finally, it's just incredible to me that here in early 1943, both sides are still using aircraft - Ki-43-1, G3M, Ki-21, P-400s, P-39Ds, P-40E-1s, B-17Fs, B-25Cs, A-20As, which seem like they should have been phased out by mid 1942. This is also a factor of the extremely long supply lines and logistics chains. Newer types are coming, but there is a serious lag. The P-40Ks are a significant improvement over the P-40E but about half of the 49th FG pilots are still flying the E types! By the end of this period (Feb-March) Corsairs are fighting in the Solomons with the USMC along with a few P-40Fs, and the Japanese are deploying Ki-61s and Ki-44s in other Theaters. Five fighter groups of P-40Fs and Ls and two with P-39G and Hs are already fighting in the Mediterranean (P-40Fs have been in combat there since mid 1942), and P-39N and A-20C are already on their way to Russia.
Right at the end of this period, in May 1943, the Japanese would receive their first Ki-43-II (a major improvement over the Ki-43-I) and in April they will get their first Ki-61s
The B-26s of 22nd BG were stood down in January '43. Most of the group converted to B-25s later in the year, but one squadron, the 19th BS, would resume combat operations flying refurbished B-26s in July until all B-26s in the Pacific were retired in Janaury '44.The British were receiving pre-Dec 7 commitments by FDR, In May 1942 Arnold and Tower were on their to GB to re-negotiate the agreed allocations, things were 'tense' in Middle East.
Bolero and defense of Hawaii and US west coast were number 1 in summer 1842 even after Battle of Midway, Training Command demanding their share, China demanding their share, Torch stripped Bolero and supplied the African campaign with all the new P-40 and p-38s - all the P-38s save one squadron went to Africa/12th AF. Russians demanding their share of P-39s steadily after 1941.. SWP and CBI had perhaps lowest priority from Joint Chiefs in early 1943.