They were, but presented too large a target for AA gunners. Engaging anyone who could shoot back while approaching at torpedo drop speed would be suicide.
Was a four engine torpedo bomber ever considered? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Admiral Beez
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The 5th AF B-17s entered their bombing run from 2,000+ feet and entered a shallow dive, levelling out at 500 to 800 feet above the water.
Once the bombs were released, they egressed a few hundred feet above the water until clear on any AA threat.
This tactic is also very close to a torpedo bomber attack profile.
The improved Mark 13 (max. drop speed: 290mph, max. drop height: 800ft.) was able to be delivered with success at high speed by the TBF at about the same height as Kenny's B-17 attack runs.
So why not?
Because improved Mk13s were not fielded before B-17s were withdrawn from Pacific combat ops in 1943.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
However, *if* it was seen as a viable platform for delivery, I would imagine that they would have kept it in combat for that purpose.
The B-17 was kept in service in the Pacific until war's end, though, being used in the role of air-dropped supplies and SAR, so they didn't disappear completely.
The few B-17 bomber units in the Pacific had replaced their aircraft with B-24 by mid-1943, after which there were only a few around as "hacks".
Then in late 1944 the B-17H variant was developed to carry the Higgins A-1 airborne lifeboat (in 1948 reclassified as the SB-17G). The first rescue by one of these aircraft took place in the North Sea in April 1945. Some of these found their way to the Pacific in 1945 to serve alongside the the OA-10A Catalinas in up to 5 Emergency Rescue Squadrons around the Pacific. Usually they were "owned" by separate flights within these squadrons.
Then in late 1944 the B-17H variant was developed to carry the Higgins A-1 airborne lifeboat (in 1948 reclassified as the SB-17G). The first rescue by one of these aircraft took place in the North Sea in April 1945. Some of these found their way to the Pacific in 1945 to serve alongside the the OA-10A Catalinas in up to 5 Emergency Rescue Squadrons around the Pacific. Usually they were "owned" by separate flights within these squadrons.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Don't forget the B-17s used by the 54th TCW's airdrop section.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I didn't.
Also, I'd imagine the horizontal profile of a b-17 isn't much larger than a 2 engine bomber which had success in the axis (ju-88, g4m) bonus points for a better sighting system for gyroscopes in the b-17, they could launch 4 torpedos per plane easily several thousand yards away, much safer than skipbombing.
Imagine such a fleet in the Philippines in 1941.
You'd probably need to change the early war to get america to get inspired, probably a ju-88 assault on scapa flow or a land based Taranto raid instead.
Imagine such a fleet in the Philippines in 1941.
You'd probably need to change the early war to get america to get inspired, probably a ju-88 assault on scapa flow or a land based Taranto raid instead.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The problem is, that the Mark 13 was garbage before the late '42 revamp.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Right, and even if the torpedo detonators and depth-running ran perfectly, you're still asking big planes to get down to 120mph IAS at 150' max, and then dodge counterfire. That was hard for the B-26s at Midway, much more agile as they were, and smaller targets too.
I'm not sold on torpedo-trucks in WWII. Maybe by the end, with huge engines giving smaller a/c the ability to carry and drop two at higher speeds and altitudes and the Get the FOOD.
Even the triple Japanese 25mm would have a good chance of hurting a -17 trying to climb out of a torpedo run.
Submarines may fire torpedoes from several thousand yards away, and get strikes.
But in most cases the target doesn't know there is a torpedo coming their way until it close enough to be spotted by a lookout.
But B-17s are not the stealthiest aircraft out there, someone's going to spot it and maybe the splash of the torpedo too.
There's a lot of run time on a maybe 40 mph torpedo, and a lot of time for even a slow supply ship to maneuver .
I think a lot of us has seen photos of the wild maneuvering wakes the Japanese fleet made during the Battle of Midway, when B-17s dropped bombs from high altitude , not a single hit.
No matter what kind of target computer, or bombsight you've got, they can't work if the target has a random maneuvering pattern.
But in most cases the target doesn't know there is a torpedo coming their way until it close enough to be spotted by a lookout.
But B-17s are not the stealthiest aircraft out there, someone's going to spot it and maybe the splash of the torpedo too.
There's a lot of run time on a maybe 40 mph torpedo, and a lot of time for even a slow supply ship to maneuver .
I think a lot of us has seen photos of the wild maneuvering wakes the Japanese fleet made during the Battle of Midway, when B-17s dropped bombs from high altitude , not a single hit.
No matter what kind of target computer, or bombsight you've got, they can't work if the target has a random maneuvering pattern.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The improved Mark 13's max. drop speed was 290mph at a max. drop height of 800ft.
The TBF/TBM used these improved fish with good success.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Sure, but you're not getting that in 1942, which is when the B-17s were trialing skip-bombing and about ready to get pulled from theater anyway. Those improved Mk13s didn't come out until late 43/early 44, when most of those -17s were gone except for hack duty.
If you want to bring Forts back to SoWesPac for this duty with improved/fixed/working Mk 13s, Kenney's going to have to win out over Arnold and Spaatz sending them to 8AF. That's not going to happen.
There won't be any B-17s carrying four torpedoes, sad to say -- because that would be an awesome look.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
There was an overlap in the timeline and bear in mind, that the B-17, from it's inception, through the later variants, had provisions for external bomb shackles that could have easily accomated torps.
Also, Kenny (and Pappy Gunn) were notorious for doing what they wanted, much to the disdain of the "boss".
This included using B-17s for skip-bombing, which got their asses chewed, but when the word went up the chain that they were corn-holing Japanese shipping, the heavy breathing from the brass backed off.
