Wellington torpedo-bomber - crude sight?

[WATU]

Hi
There are many examples of simple bomb and torpedo sights often designed by squadron aircrew. They mostly are variations of a rifle with a foresight and backsight to assist the pilot and sometimes the 2nd pilot to allow approaches from both sides. I am attaching two pictures of Wellington torpedo-bombers, both in the Middle East, possibly both 38 Squadron. One has what might be a typical sighting aid being two small spikes in front of the cockpit. The other has a more complicated gadget seemingly covering quite a wide arc. Is the fancy device a sighting aid and if so is more known about it? The alternative suggestion is that it is a windscreen spray to remove salt deposits from flying at low level. Thanks

 

[EwenS]

It is a slightly modified version of the torpedo sight fitted to FAA aircraft like the Swordfish and Albacore.

The torpedo was meant to run straight when dropped. So the pilot had to aim ahead of the target. To do that he needed to estimate its speed. The horizontal bar carried lights. The pilot estimated the speed placed the relevant light on the target and dropped the torpedo at the correct range. Hopefully, if he estimated correctly, the torpedo would run in the direction the aircraft was pointing and torpedo & target would connect.

I think the second photo has the same device, but due to the angle the photo was taken from, and its poor quality, the horizontal bar can't be seen, just the supporting struts.

Here is a diagram of the Swordfish cockpit. The torpedo sight is item 24.

It can also be seen here ahead of an Albacore cockpit. Single bar like the Wellington in the first photo.

Until 38 squadron became operational on torpedo carrying Wellingtons in Jan 1942, the only torpedo droppers in the Med were the shore based FAA Swordfish and Albacore squadrons. So the knowledge and equipment was already in theatre for the RAF to adopt.

 

[WATU]

It is a slightly modified version of the torpedo sight fitted to FAA aircraft like the Swordfish and Albacore.

The torpedo was meant to run straight when dropped. So the pilot had to aim ahead of the target. To do that he needed to estimate its speed. The horizontal bar carried lights. The pilot estimated the speed placed the relevant light on the target and dropped the torpedo at the correct range. Hopefully, if he estimated correctly, the torpedo would run in the direction the aircraft was pointing and torpedo & target would connect.

I think the second photo has the same device, but due to the angle the photo was taken from, and its poor quality, the horizontal bar can't be seen, just the supporting struts.

Here is a diagram of the Swordfish cockpit. The torpedo sight is item 24.
View attachment 772082

It can also be seen here ahead of an Albacore cockpit. Single bar like the Wellington in the first photo.
View attachment 772085View attachment 772086






Until 38 squadron became operational on torpedo carrying Wellingtons in Jan 1942, the only torpedo droppers in the Med were the shore based FAA Swordfish and Albacore squadrons. So the knowledge and equipment was already in theatre for the RAF to adopt.

Thanks, very helpful. I found a mention of a "rake" sight which is clearly this. Was it a formal sight designed at RAE, for example, or something developed within the Middle East as theatre mod?

 

[EwenS]

Thanks, very helpful. I found a mention of a "rake" sight which is clearly this. Was it a formal sight designed at RAE, for example, or something developed within the Middle East as theatre mod?

It was the standard FAA torpedo sight fitted to the Swordfish from 1936. Doesn't seem to be on its predecessor, the Blackburn Shark. Don't know who developed it.

Until Nov 1941 38 squadron was a regular night bomber unit in Egypt. At that point it was withdrawn, its aircraft modified in theatre, while the crews were retrained in the TB role. It then began anti-shipping operations, usually at night, in Jan 1942.

This change of role was necessary due to the shortage of Beaufort TB arriving from Britain. By Operation Crusader in Nov 1941 only about a dozen Beauforts had arrived in the Middle East and some of those had been grabbed by 39 squadron as a replacement for its Marylands being used for shipping recce.

 

[WATU]

Thanks again. Think that is nailed. I have been looking at Coastal Command low level sights for ASW but never strayed into torpedo sights but the rake image caught my eye.

 

[Greyman]

The types in use by September '44, apparently:

 

[SaparotRob]

This is something I've never seen before. Thanks for posting it.

 

[WATU]

That triple shot is amazing. I wonder what the relative merits were between the three types? Complicates training. Great picture, many thanks.

 

[EwenS]

By about 1942 a much more sophisticated set up had been developed in Britain, for use on the Barracuda and Beaufighter. In these a "torpedo director" was fitted - a kind of mechanical computer into which the pilot made several inputs for target course relative to his aircraft, speed etc. The computer then set a rudder angle on the torpedo.

So now the pilot aimed his aircraft directly at the target using the normal reflector gunsight. When the torpedo entered the water the rudder angle adjusted the course it took to, hopefully, an interception point ahead of the ship at the time of dropping. These aircraft were dropping from higher altitudes and greater speeds than Swordfish & Albacores. The skill, which needed constant practice to learn and maintain, was in the pilot being able to estimate accurately factors like speed and course for input to the director.

The FAA developed a simulator to allow this practice to be carried out ashore. Projectors could project pictures of ships onto the screen while others could simulate different weather conditions.

 

[WATU]

More great info. The training aids sound interesting. I do have some papers on the more sophisticated torpedo sights but I have not paid much attention to them to be honest. The one thing I took away was that the main problem seemed to be the movement of the target, speed and course (the fourth vector), and how to solve that within the sighting mechanism.

 

[MiTasol]

By about 1942 a much more sophisticated set up had been developed in Britain, for use on the Barracuda and Beaufighter. In these a "torpedo director" was fitted - a kind of mechanical computer into which the pilot made several inputs for target course relative to his aircraft, speed etc. The computer then set a rudder angle on the torpedo.

So now the pilot aimed his aircraft directly at the target using the normal reflector gunsight. When the torpedo entered the water the rudder angle adjusted the course it took to, hopefully, an interception point ahead of the ship at the time of dropping. These aircraft were dropping from higher altitudes and greater speeds than Swordfish & Albacores. The skill, which needed constant practice to learn and maintain, was in the pilot being able to estimate accurately factors like speed and course for input to the director.

The FAA developed a simulator to allow this practice to be carried out ashore. Projectors could project pictures of ships onto the screen while others could simulate different weather conditions.

View attachment 772144

The RAAF used a similar device for training bomb aimers that I have only one reference to.

The RAAF also used "festoon sights" on their Beauforts when doing torpedo ops but I have no information on those.