What is the ability to roll and the ability to turn????

[Chiron]

Can somone distinguish these two basic terms to me??

What is roll???

 

[cheddar cheese]

Rolling is how a plane rotates on its central axis in the air...for instance, if you pulled the stick left, you would roll to the left, but continue in a straight line. Roll is controlled by the ailerons...

To turn, you use a combination of the ailerons and the elevators. If you want to make a turn to the left, you roll to the left until you are at a suitable angle for a turn (if you want to turn tightly, this would probably be between 80 and 90 degrees) then one you are in position, you pull back on the stick to move the elevators, and this pulls you into a turn. The Rudder is also used to keep the plane's height in turns.

Basically, Rolling is a factor of turning.

 

[Chiron]

Thanks

But why some planes had better turning ability while others had better rolling ability??? I meant that since both are so interrelated (you need ailerons to turn as well as roll), one can not have good rolling without good turning.

For example, Fw-190 was best at its rolling ability to Spitfire, while the Spitfire was superior in its turning capability.

And also how a Spitfire counter its weakness in rolling?? against Fw-190?

 

[cheddar cheese]

Technically, you dont need ailerons to turn. You only need them to get into the position to turn.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and there are other ways to turn.............

and turning tightly will proberly put you through allot of Gs, if you're not carefull you'll black out, stall and fall to your death in an uncontrollable dive................

 

[cheddar cheese]

Or redout..

I dont think blackouts/redouts last that long, a few seconds maybe...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

you wouldn't red out due to the Gs from a turn, you would red out from a dive.........

and a few seconds is a long time in combat, i wouldn't wanna loose controll of an aircraft even for a few seconds, that's more than enough time to stall and dive...............

 

[cheddar cheese]

You red out from negative G's, so you would red out going into the dive to quickly, not during it...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

wanna put that to the test??

 

[wmaxt]

You red out from negative G's, so you would red out going into the dive to quickly, not during it...

But you can turn with aleron imput only though it takes a while.

A turn is affected by a lot of things - lift is a great determining factor, the Zero had a big wing with lots of lift for it's size and weight = great turning ability.

Thr problem is that with a wing like that drag also is higher limiting top speed etc. It's always a compromise.

A few years after F-16s started entering service a lot of accidents started happening and it was majors with lot's of flying hours. The cause was found to be the use of 9+G turns blacking out pilots and crashing before they woke up again.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

exactly!!

 

[cheddar cheese]

An F-16 pulling 9G is a bit more than what you'd experience in a WW2 plane...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

you could still force 4-5G out of a WWII aircraft.............

 

[cheddar cheese]

Yeah I know, but I imagine that more G causes longer blackouts, and also F-16's are a good deeal faster than WW2 aircraft, so it isnt really justified to prove the point using such a different plane...

In a WW2 plane, you may well lose control of the aircraft but you also may recover in time to bail out.

 

[Concorde247]

It really does depend on the altitude that you perform the high-G turn at!

One of my DVD's show a mustang at very low level turning between trees with his wingtip about 10 - 20 feet from the ground. if the pilot made the turn too fast too tight, blacked out in that instance, then he would NOT stand a chance!!

 

[cheddar cheese]

you could still force 4-5G out of a WWII aircraft.............

F1 drivers reach 5G, they dont black out

Strange...

 

[wmaxt]

you could still force 4-5G out of a WWII aircraft.............

F1 drivers reach 5G, they dont black out

Strange...

That's only for a split second and their trained /conditioned for it. You if average would black out if 5g were held for more than 20 seconds or so. US fighter pilots must endure 9g for 90 seconds (Ithink again from a documentary) without a G suite to qualify for flight in any F-16/15/22 at least. The Air operated G-suite is good for about 1g extra and helps in sustained G situations. The Liquid G-suite (European, I think French or Brittish design) is good for more but I can't remember the numbers. G-suites were first used in the ETO durring WWII by the Brittish and Americans at about the same tims late in the war.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

you could still force 4-5G out of a WWII aircraft.............

F1 drivers reach 5G, they dont black out

Strange...

so now you're doubting you would black out entirely??

 

[cheddar cheese]

No, im questioning your claim of G's that WW2 pilots pulled. It must have been more than that.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

so you think it's more in the 6-8G range??