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Given that Germany could not compete on engines powers with the allies, due to lack of raw materials and high octane fuel the Ta 152 was a strange choice. The longer fuselage permitted heavier armament but was useless since added more weight in an aircraft that was already outperformed by the escort fighters. It also reduced a bit rate of roll.
They also were able to fit the jumo213eb on the Dora, so the extension was no benefit in this regard
n my opinion the ultimate German piston fighter would be a Dora fuselage,Ta152c wings and tail unit, no pressurised cockpit, 3 mg151/20 in combination with the Ez42 sight and the most powerful engine available.
But it really was hopeless. They could not built properly even the existing versions.
My thoughts. The steel wing spar alone weighed 250 kg more than the duralumin one.Given that Germany could not compete on engines powers with the allies, due to lack of raw materials and high octane fuel the Ta 152 was a strange choice. The longer fuselage permitted heavier armament but was useless since added more weight in an aircraft that was already outperformed by the escort fighters. It also reduced a bit rate of roll.
They also were able to fit the jumo213eb on the Dora, so the extension was no benefit in this regard
I have read that the drum radiator was less druggy than the axial one
Also some of the weight of the ta 152 may have been caused by the use of non aviation alloys due to lack of raw materials
In my opinion the ultimate German piston fighter would be a Dora fuselage,Ta152c wings and tail unit, no pressurised cockpit, 3 mg151/20 in combination with the Ez42 sight and the most powerful engine available.
But it really was hopeless. They could not built properly even the existing versions.
German V12s were, in aggregate, bigger than the Allied V12s - that will cover a lot of the handicap vs. the Allied V12s running at high oct fuel. Plus, the MW 50 system was helping a lot with regard to the high boost achieved. All in all, German engines were making 1750+ HP by early 1944, but there were other problems attached to these engines. 1st, the too late installation of big V12s on the Fw 190 airframe (at least 10 months too late), and, 2nd, generally inferior superchargers on the German engines (both on V12s and BMW 801s). Having to put up the fight against the enemy that is out-numbering the LW was of no help, either.
It appears the internal structural components of the allied engines were of better alloys and could tolerate more forcing. The lack of two stage supercharger was terrible disadvantage. Generally the jumo213a and db603a had a very mediocre power to weight ratio and could not make the Dora equal to the opposition
Did the Dora powered with 213EB ever flew?
As far as I know no. But it's design was ready and proves that they managed to fit a two stage supercharger and intercooler in a Dora fuselage. So the ta 152 extension was only for the unreasonable heavy armament
Obviously nothing could compare with the Me 262. So perhaps,after July 1944, it would be better to cancel all piston engines development except jumo 213a and db605d , mainly for service against the soviets. On the western front only jets had a chance to operateKicker was that the best piston-engined fighter was a worse choice than a decent jet engined fighter. LW was not helped by a fighter that can outperform the best Allied fighters by 5% (give or take), but by a far greater margin, while carrying a more serious firepower, so it can also do the bomber killing
Obviously nothing could compare with the Me 262. So perhaps,after July 1944, it would be better to cancel all piston engines development except jumo 213a and db605d , mainly for service against the soviets.
On the western front only jets had a chance to operate
Was the steel spar just a developmental thing, or it was introduced in production?My thoughts. The steel wing spar alone weighed 250 kg more than the duralumin one.
Writing was at the wall by the time 1941 ended - neither UK nor the Soviet Union were defeated (not at least some kind of an uneasy peace was attained with either of the two countries), and Hitler managed to declare the war against the USA.Of course, without an equally magical reversal of fortunes on the Eastern front, they're still going to lose the war, badly.
Idk.Was the steel spar just a developmental thing, or it was introduced in production?
Speaking generally of the fw190 , it was needing a better engine than the bmw801 from day one. And certainly after mid 1942. The early war choices of the rlm proved disastrousJuly 1944 is way, way too late to do that.
Fw 190 needs a much better engine than the BMW 801D in the noise by late 1943 (and the 109 needing a much better engine than the DB 605A), so it can make a difference not just against the P-47s, but also against P-51s.
Pretty much.
Do you have a source for the 250 kg weight penalty for the wing spar (spars?), steel vs. light alloy?Idk.
But it is a step backwards, quite a weight penalty.
Speaking generally of the fw190 , it was needing a better engine than the bmw801 from day one. And certainly after mid 1942. The early war choices of the rlm proved disastrous
Not an original source. In a German issue of the aviation Aeroplane years ago. Possibly my first read about the 190 except for the text on the model kit boxes.Do you have a source for the 250 kg weight penalty for the wing spar (spars?), steel vs. light alloy?
Writing was at the wall by the time 1941 ended - neither UK nor the Soviet Union were defeated (not at least some kind of an uneasy peace was attained with either of the two countries), and Hitler managed to declare the war against the USA.
Speaking generally of the fw190 , it was needing a better engine than the bmw801 from day one. And certainly after mid 1942.
The early war choices of the rlm proved disastrous
I refer specifically in July 44 because by that time it was clear that the me 262 was entering operational trials and was vastly superior. Why spent further development resources in two stage piston engines? They should have done it three years before.
Again IMO, German approach towards engine development left a lot to be desired, with companies making huge number of versions of numerous engine types, with a lot of overlap and attempts to reinvent the wheel, while indeed failing to develop the next-gen superchargers for the 1st line engines until too late. A Fw 190 with the BMW 801 that has a good/great S/C would've still been a tough costumer for the Allies in 1944.
So who do you take out?
BMW 802 and 803 (spend the resources in making the 801 better instead, including the more serious development of the hollow-bladed turbine for the turbo at BMW, that has knock-on effects on the jet engines when these became a thing). Even the 801E is a boon, and perhaps combine the S/C from it with the rest of the 801C to have an overall good performer that still uses the B4 fuel.
A host of liquid-cooled engines with more than 12 cylinders; rather make the 2-stage supercharged versions of the DB 601/605/603, as well as of the Jumo 211 and 213 by 1942-43.
Curiously enough, DB was fiddling with half a dozen of different S/C options for their V12s, that bore no fruit. Already the DB 601E with the S/C from the DB 603 is a boon, let alone with a 2-stage S/C. Keep the compression ratios under 7:1 (preferably under 6.5:1; 6:1 is a nice, round number if we ask people at RR).
Again, all of this needs to be in the pipeline much earlier than 1944 in order for the Allies to have a tougher nut to crack.
It certainly looks out of line unless some moron simply used the dimensions of the alloy spar/s and copied them in steel. And added some extra "beef".Do you have a source for the 250 kg weight penalty for the wing spar (spars?), steel vs. light alloy?
No disagreement here, but my question was actually "who", as in which manufacturer, if you want to go a step further.
To expand on that.I don't want to take out any manufacturer.