Worst mass produced, monoplane, single-engine, single-seat, retractable undercarriage fighter of WW2?

[Admiral Beez]

Yes, the La-5F....Ten built,

Alright folks, do we need a cognition and literacy test before we post?

Which is the worst mass produced (>500 units), monoplane, single-engine, single-seat, retractable undercarriage fighter of WW2?

 

[Admiral Beez]

And yet, the Ki-43 was deadly as hell

I'll have to dig out my Bloody Shambles, but IIRC even the Buffalo had good kill ratios against the Oscar. Of course a few dozen Bufffaloes would be overwhelmed by the number of Oscars. I suppose any aircraft in this category is deadly.

This vid of the Oscar is well done. I'll do some reading on the Buffalo and see if I can find any references to Oscar kills.

 

[buffnut453]

Alright folks, do we need a cognition and literacy test before we post?

What does "cognition" mean?



I'll get my coat!

 

[Kevin J]

Alright folks, do we need a cognition and literacy test before we post?

Look there were about 10k La-5's built.

 

[Timppa]

Ok, let's try this one:
Brewster F3A-1 (Brewster built Corsair)
so poorly built that it was redlined for speed and prohibited from acrobatics. 700 built. Not a bad design but a bad manufacturer.

"Brewster production and engineering test pilot Ralph O. Romaine said, "From the feedback we received from the Aircraft Delivery Units of the US Navy,the Brewster Corsairs were considered of very high quality and trouble-free."

 

[Kevin J]

"Brewster production and engineering test pilot Ralph O. Romaine said, "From the feedback we received from the Aircraft Delivery Units of the US Navy,the Brewster Corsairs were considered of very high quality and trouble-free."

So what went wrong?

 

[NevadaK]

So what went wrong?

That is a good question and I have been trying to locate better information that good ole' wikipedia. What I find is conflicting, but I will keep looking.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So what went wrong?

Nothing. There weren't enough of them. Five squadrons of Buffaloes, with a stark deficit of trained and experienced pilots operating from unprepared and poorly defended airstrips were tasked to defend a territory larger than the entire UK (defended by ~100 fighter squadrons in Dec 1941) against a much larger force of the IJAF's best aircraft and experienced aircrew.

Replace those Buffaloes with five squadrons of the latest Spitfire variant and it will make no difference. But give Malaya twenty or thirty squadrons of Buffaloes and (since there aren't enough Buffaloes) Mohawks and the Japanese will face at least credible opposition. Of course, even if the RAF fighter aircraft could be had, there's still the shortage of pilots, ground personnel and poorly sited and prepared airfields. The loss of Malaya was not the Buffaloes fault.

 

[Schweik]

Guns of the top 6 candidates:

EDIT: corrected armament of the Bloch

MiG-3 - Started out with a heavy armament of 2 x LMG and 3 x HMG, this was reduced on some aircraft to save weight to 1 x HMG and 2 x LMG or even 1 and 1, but it didn't help much.
LaGG-1/3 - Also started with heavyish armament of up to 5 machine guns, ended up with 1 x hub 20mm ShVAK hub cannon and 1 or 2 x HMG or LMG. Still fairly potent by early war standards.
MS. 406 - One hub mounted Hispano 20mm cannon (60 rounds) and two LMG
Bloch 150 / 152 - Two wing-mounted Hispano 20mm cannon (60 rounds) and two or four x LMG
Fiat G.50 - Two HMG
PZL P.11 - Two to four LMG

So of those, I would say the P.11 and G.50 were the least heavily armed, though not necessarily the worst fighters of the group. The I-16 by the way, was armed with just two LMG in the Spanish Civil War but most variants that faced the Germans had 2 x 20mm ShVAK cannon plus 2 x LMGs, all in the wings. Soviet cannon were quite good, their HMG were good, their ShKAS LMGs were superb. The Breda HMG in the Fiat were considered pretty bad, slow firing and relatively lightweight ammo for the caliber.

 

[Schweik]

Big challenge there was to balance the need for firepower with the weight limitations of a 600 - 900 hp engine. As the engines got more powerful, some of these aircraft became much more effective.

 

[buffnut453]

Nothing. There weren't enough of them. Five squadrons of Buffaloes, with a stark deficit of trained and experienced pilots operating from unprepared and poorly defended airstrips were tasked to defend a territory larger than the entire UK (defended by ~100 fighter squadrons in Dec 1941) against a much larger force of the IJAF's best aircraft and experienced aircrew.

Replace those Buffaloes with five squadrons of the latest Spitfire variant and it will make no difference. But give Malaya twenty or thirty squadrons of Buffaloes and (since there aren't enough Buffaloes) Mohawks and the Japanese will face at least credible opposition. Of course, even if the RAF fighter aircraft could be had, there's still the shortage of pilots, ground personnel and poorly sited and prepared airfields. The loss of Malaya was not the Buffaloes fault.

I think he's referring to Brewster's licence production of the F4U Corsair and not to the Buffalos.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think he's referring to Brewster's licence production of the F4U Corsair and not to the Buffalos.

Ah, true. I didn't know Brewster made Corsairs. Did they make the FAA's clipped wing variety? I've wondered what a USN/MC pilot would think of the RN's bird.

 

[Schweik]

This pretty little thing was actually their worst aircraft, though it wasn't a fighter...

Brewster SB2A Buccaneer - Wikipedia

 

[Admiral Beez]

This pretty little thing was actually their worst aircraft, though it wasn't a fighter...

View attachment 584939

Brewster SB2A Buccaneer - Wikipedia

The Brits did get their share of Brewster products.

I wonder if the FAA ever thought to put it on the RN's carriers in those desperate early days.

 

[buffnut453]

Delivery to the FAA only began in July 1942 so hardly "desperate early days". It never served operationally on a British carrier.

 

[wuzak]

Bloch 150 / 152 - One hub mounted Hispano 20mm cannon (60 rounds) and two or four x LMG

Wiki says two 20mm and two or four 7.5mm.

And since the engine was a radial, they weren't hub mounted.

 

[pbehn]

Could the Bismarck and Tirpitz be included? heavily armed and good at low level with advanced RADAR?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Delivery to the FAA only began in July 1942 so hardly "desperate early days". It never served operationally on a British carrier.

I wonder which the FAA rejected faster, the Bermuda or Chesapeake. The latter might have been useful in Malaya with the RAF as a CAS bomber.

 

[Kevin J]

Nothing. There weren't enough of them. Five squadrons of Buffaloes, with a stark deficit of trained and experienced pilots operating from unprepared and poorly defended airstrips were tasked to defend a territory larger than the entire UK (defended by ~100 fighter squadrons in Dec 1941) against a much larger force of the IJAF's best aircraft and experienced aircrew.

Replace those Buffaloes with five squadrons of the latest Spitfire variant and it will make no difference. But give Malaya twenty or thirty squadrons of Buffaloes and (since there aren't enough Buffaloes) Mohawks and the Japanese will face at least credible opposition. Of course, even if the RAF fighter aircraft could be had, there's still the shortage of pilots, ground personnel and poorly sited and prepared airfields. The loss of Malaya was not the Buffaloes fault.

The reason that I have to disagree is that there is no radar cover north of Kuala Lumpur and no Observer Corps at all. Perhaps this is why Percival got the job, he had experience of how to retreat to the sea successfully to Dunkirk. We would have been better off scuttling HMS Repulse in Penang Harbour then at least Penang would have radar and could give fire support to our Imperial forces in Malaya. HMS POW should have been assigned to support HMS Indomitable when it arrived. Then together to steam up to the Japanese beachheads to attack them cutting off the Japanese forces from further supplies.

 

[Schweik]

Wiki says two 20mm and two or four 7.5mm.

And since the engine was a radial, they weren't hub mounted.

You are right, my bad - those 20mm on the Bloch were definitely wing mounted. I just copied my own previous line from the MS 406 out of haste. The MB 152 was the most heavily armed of that list.