Worst liquid-cooled, V12-powered, single-engine, single-seat, monoplane, retractable undercarriage fighters of WW2?

[special ed]

Overwhelming is good in color!

 

[GrauGeist]

Surprised no one has mentioned Northrop's XP-56, yet.

 

[Shortround6]

Surprised no one has mentioned Northrop's XP-56, yet.

Not V-12, not liquid cooled.
Started as an H-24 liquid cooled though.

But yes, pretty terrible

 

[Admiral Beez]

Had the Germans sent a squadron or two of the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 with Barbarossa how would they have compared to the USSR's monoplane, V-12 fighters of summer 1941, namely the LaGG-1, LaGG-3, MiG-1, MiG-3 and Yak-1? I think we'd do okay against the limited production and low spec LaGG-1 and MiG-1.

I like the French slow and crate-like aircraft for some reason.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsR222oBInc

Here's the MiG-3 for comparison.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHwfb9LtZX4

 

[Clayton Magnet]

Here's the MiG-3 for comparison

Cool video. That MiG sure seems to be having issues retracting that right gear though

 

[Just Schmidt]

Had the Germans sent a squadron or two of the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 with Barbarossa how would they have compared to the USSR's monoplane, V-12 fighters of summer 1941, namely the LaGG-1, LaGG-3, MiG-1, MiG-3 and Yak-1? I think we'd do okay against the limited production and low spec LaGG-1 and MiG-1.

I doubt that there were many of those left for the M.S. 406 when all the squadrons og Bf-109 were having their share too.

But as always the finns show the way, though as usual they are tinkering. Remebering our thread about reliable youtube sources, I'm not entirely sure of this channels veracity. At least he seems to be putting in an effort.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40rR1hz8njE

 

[Admiral Beez]

I doubt that there were many of those left for the M.S. 406 when all the squadrons og Bf-109 were having their share too.

My favourite M.S.406 engagement is their fight in French-Indochina. When they arrived in FIC in 1940 the M.S.406 might have been, for a short while, the best land-based fighter in SEA until the Ki-43 Oscar enters service in Oct 1941. How would the other pre-Oscar, radial-powered SEA fighters, the Brewster Buffalo, Ki-27 Nate or Fokker D.XXI compare to our liquid cooled M.S.406? Interestingly, the Finns used three of the four.

 

[Jabberwocky]

MiG-1 gets my vote.

Dangerously unstable in flight both laterally and longitudinally, with controls that were both unbalanced and very heavy/tiring for pilots. The aircraft had center of gravity issues, which led to unpredictable stall behaviour. If it did stall, it was difficult recovery and a had a tendency flat spin (even just while climbing). The engine was insufficiently cooled and blew hot engine gas into the cockpit.The armament was prone to freezing/jamming after just a couple of rounds. Take-off runs and landing speeds were both considered unacceptably high. Once you did get on the ground, the behavior was still terrible thanks to the set back cockpit/very high nose position and small landing gear wheel.

There used to be a fabulous website that detailed its troubled development and re-birth as the (still rather troubled) MiG-3. Alas, it appears to have gone to the great internet graveyard.

At least the Yak-1 and LaGG-1 grew into something worthwhile.

 

[GrauGeist]

There used to be a fabulous website that detailed its troubled development and re-birth as the (still rather troubled) MiG-3. Alas, it appears to have gone to the great internet graveyard.

You should still be able to access that website from beyond the grave.

Visit this site and see if you can find the old website:

Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

archive.org

 

[Jabberwocky]

You should still be able to access that website from beyond the grave.

Visit this site and see if you can find the old website:

Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

archive.org

I know all about the WayBack machine. I've even contributed financially in the past (great way of getting around certain paywalls).

I just can't remember the address for the website for the life of me, and a casual 10 minutes on Google wasn't any help.

Closest I can come is this site: MiG-1/3 family

Which is great for the MiG-3, but a lot less detailed on the MiG-1.

 

[z42]

Typhoons are a possibility depending on year and charitable intentions

Not powered by a V-12. But if we ignore that, and have "at least somewhat widespread service during WWII" as a criterion I think there would be grounds for shortlisting it. Hushkit had some choice words about the Typhoon at 10 MORE of the Worst British military aircraft

 

[GrauGeist]

I hate "worst" lists and the Tiffy doesn't belong on any of them.

The Curtiss SO3C and Brewster F3A, yes - Hawker Typhoon, no.

 

[Admiral Beez]

(The Typhoon) is) not powered by a V-12. But if we ignore that, and have "at least somewhat widespread service during WWII" as a criterion I think there would be grounds for shortlisting it.

If the tail can stay on, a V-12 Griffon would make the Typhoon better, not worse. Assuming we can avoid the gaping maw of the Griffon Tempest.

View attachment 767867

 

[pinehilljoe]

The prototype XP-75 has to be on the top 5 list. I think its an example of a big corporation lobbying to build anything for the War Department.

 

[MIflyer]

There used to be a fabulous website that detailed its troubled development and re-birth as the (still rather troubled) MiG-3. Alas, it appears to have gone to the great internet graveyard.

I have an early issue of Air Enthusiast that has an article on that and I'll try to scan and post it.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If we're going to include prototypes, then I must propose the Focke Wulf Fw 159V3.

 

[GrauGeist]

If the tail can stay on, a V-12 Griffon would make the Typhoon better, not worse. Assuming we can avoid the gaping maw of the Griffon Tempest.

View attachment 767867

The Typhoon gets a bad rap, to be honest.

Yes, the tail had issues early on, but this was corrected by a few different "fixes".

In the end, only 25 verified cases of structural failure were found, out of over 3,300 airframes built.

One thing I find interesting, is that no matter how bad the Tiffy is made out to be, it was the only Allied fighter that could meet and beat the Fw190 on it's own terms at that point in time - which shows a great deal of merit in favor of the Typhoon.

 

[Greg Boeser]

My favourite M.S.406 engagement is their fight in French-Indochina. When they arrived in FIC in 1940 the M.S.406 might have been, for a short while, the best land-based fighter in SEA until the Ki-43 Oscar enters service in Oct 1941. How would the other pre-Oscar, radial-powered SEA fighters, the Brewster Buffalo, Ki-27 Nate or Fokker D.XXI compare to our liquid cooled M.S.406? Interestingly, the Finns used three of the four.

View attachment 767607 View attachment 767608 View attachment 767609

For the Finns, it was the least successful of the four types it started with in 1941.
There was an encounter in FIC, between some Vichy Moranes and Japanese Ki 27s. The Japnese made a clean sweep.

 

[Escuadrilla Azul]

The XP-54 definitely has the best nickname.

Which one was?

 

[tyrodtom]

For the Finns, it was the least successful of the four types it started with in 1941.
There was an encounter in FIC, between some Vichy Moranes and Japanese Ki 27s. The Japnese made a clean sweep.

It seems whenever a aircraft does bad, it always gets most of the blame.
Nobody even takes time to consider the JAAF Ki27 pilots had experience from fighting in China.
Of course you'd probably not judge the CAF to hardly be a tier 1 opponent, but opposing it you would certainly learn sometime.
Like how to shoot, refine your operational procedures, etc.
One thing the JAAF did seem to have down well, they were accurate shooters, and they were team players.
But how much experience the Vichy pilots have in Vietnam ?