So... the "ultimate what-if fighter" fuselage is still 50% fabric? According to that drawing anyways.
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So... the "ultimate what-if fighter" fuselage is still 50% fabric? According to that drawing anyways.Anyways, here's an interesting article and drawing of a hypothetical Griffon Hurricane:
It's a bit more complicated than that because Camm based his speed predictions on engine outputs that didn't always match their manufacturers claims.
The 10,700lb Tornado made 398 mph at 23300 ft with a rough running Vulture V.
A Griffon Hurricane should have been much lighter, with less frontal area and probably would have matched Camm's claims, or at least come close.
I think the Hurricane had a lot more life in it, than we give it credit for:
View attachment 233618
Morgan and Shacklady, p134.
It seems likely that the above Griffon Hurricane must have had a new wing design as well.
Don't forget that the Griffon Hurricane was abandoned by the Air Ministry because it was felt to have had no future.
Shortround, Joe, take comfort in the knowledge that although we've raised exactly the same points as you, we, too have been ignored!
I guess that's true.
A "rough running" Vulture? What is the premise for this claim?
Two engines, the Sabre and Vulture, were proposed
by Hawker to meet the F]8/37 requirement. The former
became the Typhoon, and the latter, the Tornado. The
types were aerodynamically similar, but only a few
Tornadoes flew, of which one, P5224 (Vulture V), the
second prototype, was briefly at Boscombe from October
]941. At 10,690 Ib, handling was indistinguishable from
the Typhoon with stall at 82 mph (clean) and 61 mph
(undercarriage and flaps down), the engine ran rough at
high rpm (up to 3,200). Performance (see Table) was
comparable to the early Typhoons; the report comments that
had an extra pound of boost been available, top speed would
have been over 400 mph.
The Secret Years states that the engine was running rough and couldn't develop full boost:
The tables of performance states that the engine only developed 8lbs of boost.
Does it give the altitudes?
398 mph at 23300ft
The 23300 ft would be FTH with ~400 mph worth of ram. No ram, the FTH is at maybe 19000 ft?
Wasn't the Vulture V a 'fighter's engine' (the II being 'bomber's engine' - more power at lower altitudes)?
Yes, the IV and V were fighter engines.
Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi @ see level. So 1 psi would in theory give you the potential of an extra 1/15th of your current power.the report comments that
had an extra pound of boost been available, top speed would
have been over 400 mph.
My own feeling is that if the money spent on Spitfire development (and procurement)was instead used to boost Hurricane development and production, that initially, up to about mid 1941, that the net result would have been positive, as more Hurricanes (3 Hurricanes for every two historical Spitfires plus historical Hurricane production), with better access to Merlin engine development (Merlin 12, 45), in a cleaned up Hurricane airframe would have resulted in a stronger RAF. However, once the 109F and FW190 arrive in numbers the situation gets a lot more difficult for Hurricanes unless it can accept a wing change. However even the existing design with modest changes might be able to hold the line until newer designs arrive in numbers.
Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi @ see level. So 1 psi would in theory give you the potential of an extra 1/15th of your current power.
So a 2000hp motor for instance would equate to 120hp @ sea level. Now take into consideration the volumetric efficient of the engine,
its probably more like 80hp @ sea level, so what's the HP gain from 1lb of boost @ 23,300ft?
It is actually worse, 14.7lbs is ZERO boost. 8lbs boost is 24.7lbs total manifold pressure. 9lbs is 25.7lbs, difference is about 4%
Superchargers tend to make up for "volumetric efficiency", not completely though. An aircraft engine measures the pressure inside the manifold or leaving the supercharger. Altitude doesn't enter into it until the supercharger can no longer supply the required manifold pressure.
What happened in North Africa and Malta with Hurricanes vs 190Fs was indicative of the slaughtering that would have gone on.
The Hurricane was barely competitive in 1940 (and the Spits were concentrating on the 109s to cover them), by '41 a Hurricane was just a slow target, to be taken out at will.