All too true, unfortunately: while I enjoy reading Morgan Shacklady's "bible", and there is some interesting material, there is much better and more accurate information available elsewhere.
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One reason might be the nature of M S bible, much of its info is copied from old Flight magazines and so there are mistakes and bad omissions, for ex. the story of CS airscrews for Hurri and Spit in 40. The original article was written by a DH man and told only the DH side of the story, completely missing the very significant Rotol contribution.
Juha
Also, please explain how the fabric covering of the rear fuselage, fin, rudder and horizontal control surfaces would have coped at 400 mph + horizontal flight.
The single seat Defiant was to be slower than SpitfireI/II, on more HP.
Not that a good alternative. With 4 fixed cannons, the performance would again be worse, as it was a case for all-cannon Hurricanes Spits. Plus, there are 4 LMGs to further hamper the performance. Then we add gun swiveling ability - further performance loss, due to space needed (= more drag) for the cannon receivers to swivel as well?
Easy! 370 mph at 23,000 ft is far more realistic than 425 mph. The Hurricane needed to be modified more than the Spitfire to use the Griffon, including moving the wing forward, with a new centre section to retain the cg within limits and, as expected for the Merlin 61, the cooling system was to be radically modified: the Spitfire VC, by comparison, needed a strengthened main longeron and other local modifications to achieve 397 mph at 17,900 ft Spitfire Mk XII DP.845 Report so that 30 mph gap still existed, in spite of the modifications. Thanks for the insight Neil.
Fitting a Merlin 60 series to the Hurricane would more than likely require even more substantial modifications because the Merlin 61 was much longer than the single-stage Griffon A (88 inches v 71 inches) and weighed about 130 lbs less http://www.spitfireperformance.com/Griffon-VI.jpg, all for a fighter with sub-par performance.
By early 1940 the speed versus power curve of the Hurricane was well established (also for other thick wing Hawker designs), and there's no way that Camm could claim 425mph with a Griffon II in a Hurricane with standard wings.
By early 1940 the speed versus power curve of the Hurricane was well established (also for other thick wing Hawker designs), and there's no way that Camm could claim 425mph with a Griffon II in a Hurricane with standard wings. This is why I was hoping for more info on Camm's proposal as report by Morgan and Shacklady from someone with access to the UK archives.
The Merlin 61 was 78 inches in length but the Griffon II probably weighed the same as (or more) than the Griffon IV:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/Aircraft_Engines_of_the_World_Rolls-Royce_Griffon.pdf
actually the Griffon weight is given in the proposal as 1813lb which is ~170lb more than the Merlin 60 series.
Griffon Hurricane
One of several schemes submitted for the development of a four cannon Hurricane with a Rolls Royce Griffon IIA, 1939-41. Discontinued when the Typhoon entered production.
K5083 - Hurricane Projects
One of several schemes submitted for the development of a four cannon Hurricane with a Rolls Royce Griffon IIA, 1939-41. Discontinued when the Typhoon entered production.
Here's a drawing of a proposed Griffon Hurricane:
So, apparently, there were several alternate proposals for a Griffon Hurricane.
That lower cowl in the drawing you provided looks P-40ish. I seem to recall that was the reason the P-40Here's a drawing of a proposed Griffon Hurricane:
The single seat Defiant was to be slower than SpitfireI/II, on more HP. Not that a good alternative. With 4 fixed cannons, the performance would again be worse, as it was a case for all-cannon Hurricanes Spits.
So plainly, that wouldn't have been an option to with, indeed if the Air Ministry had looked at it more seriously, they would've probably stuck to 8 x 0.303" MGs - which reduces the weight, and makes it a better, more competitive aircraft - pity the idea wasn't made in June rather than August.
According to an unsourced website, otherwise there is concrete evidence of one proposal which entailed extensive modifications to develop a 370 mph fighter. Redesigning the Hurricane enough to reach 425 mph would have required more than just a tummy tuck and some botox.
We have two sources, M&S stating a proposal for a 425mph Hurricane and Camm's proposed 370 mph Griffon Hurricane, so the website seems correct.
If there wasn't a Spitfire, it was the best that could have been put into action at short notice. This is a what if after all, Tomo and you know that the P.94 was examined (but rejected) for production. Useless is a bit too derogatory and I suspect as a stop gap, as a single-seat Daffy was intended, since its performance was better than the Hurricane's and there was as much potential for improvement in the basic design as the Hurricane, if not more because of the nature of its construction, so how could it have been useless? If the Hurricane was the only frontline fighter in RAF service, then why would this not have been considered? Hindsight is a terrific thing and I suspect it is colouring judgement here. The P.94 was rejected by the Air Minsitry in September 1940 because improvements to the Spitfire and future fighters, such as the Tornado and Typhoon offered better performance.
The single-seat Defiant WAS considered, along with the Miles M.20 as stop-gaps in lieu of faltering Spitfire and Hurricane production, but since neither was threatened in 1940, the need for these aircraft wasn't there, not because of any deficiency in performance or capability.
I would suggest the same source stating that Camm was expecting 466 mph for the Typhoon is also the same source used to state that Camm expected his "Grifficane" would get to 425 mph - I take it M&S have stated a source? Otherwise we have one concrete example, kindly provided by Neil Stirling, of a Camm proposal requiring extensive modifications to achieve 370 mph. The big difference is 370 mph is far more realistic and far more likely.
That lower cowl in the drawing you provided looks P-40ish. I seem to recall that was the reason the P-40
had yaw stability top speed problems. I'd be surprised if it even made 370mph. I said before, put a big
enough engine and prop on a brick, and it'll fly.
If there wasn't a Spitfire, it was the best that could have been put into action at short notice. This is a what if after all, Tomo and you know that the P.94 was examined (but rejected) for production. Useless is a bit too derogatory and I suspect as a stop gap, as a single-seat Daffy was intended, since its performance was better than the Hurricane's and there was as much potential for improvement in the basic design as the Hurricane, if not more because of the nature of its construction, so how could it have been useless? If the Hurricane was the only frontline fighter in RAF service, then why would this not have been considered? Hindsight is a terrific thing and I suspect it is colouring judgement here. The P.94 was rejected by the Air Minsitry in September 1940 because improvements to the Spitfire and future fighters, such as the Tornado and Typhoon offered better performance.