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Generally, I tend to use the power-off stall speed as a guideline.Which stall speed?
That has to do with mach effects on airspeed? I have no idea how to compute that out, though I'm curious if there are any form of correction factor to come up with something remotely accurate, reasonably speaking.At which altitude?
Accelerated stall piles on more loads on the wing, wing twists start to take hold, you have airflow asymmetries that are involved (turns), and things happen more abruptly. Snap-rolls are awesome to watch -- a rapid pitch up and jerky but fast roll. It also dumps speed so you can force overshoots with it..An aircraft can stall out on full power while pulling many "G". Thats where these "spanwise lift distribution" discussions are important. A plane that is completely benign coming in to land obviously at 1 G can stall with no warning at all its power on limit.
Yet attack planes often do seem to require more pounds per-g than do fighters, and are often trimmed nose-up for dive-recovery. That said, I would not suspect that they were extremely sluggish in terms of pitch -- just moreso than fighters.Any plane that needs to pile on the G load to do its job, such as fighters, fighter-bombers, attack planes, etc, while it may be sluggish in roll, isn't likely to be sluggish in pitch, as that's the working parameter in all combat maneuvering.
I guess power on stall?What do you mean by "its power on limit"?
Actually, that is good point: When did they first appear in the commercial aircraft industry?One thing I don't get is why AOA indicators have been so slow to take hold in the civilian world.
Just out of curiosityCalculating the Stall Speed is easy.
Here is the formula:
View attachment 567737
V = Stall Speed (Metres Per Second)
L = Lift Force (Newton's)
CL = Wing Lift Coefficient
P = Air Density (1.225kg/m3 at sea level)
A = Wing Area (Metres Squared)
CoolOn this website it will calculate the stall speed for you
Airplane Aircraft Wing Lift Design Equations Formulas Calculator - Velocity
So they plugged in all the other figures to get the C/L?Kurfürst - R.A.E. - Messerschmitt Me.109 Handling and Manoeuvrability Tests
Here are the British stall speed tests to determine the CL_Max (Wing Lift Coefficient) for BF-109E
sustained 360 horizontal turn
A7M2 - 14-15 sec
Ki-84 - 17 sec
Ki-100 - 17 sec
N1K2-J - 17 sec
Ki-44-II - 18 sec
J2M3 - 18 sec
BF-109G-10 - 19 sec
F4U-4 - 20 sec
La-9 - 20-21 sec
F6F-5 - 21-22 sec
P-38J - 22 sec
Ki-94-II - 23 sec
P-47N - 26 sec
All calculated. But it matches sources. For example I calculated 19 sec for La-7 and that's exactly what the Russian tests concluded.Laurelix,
I have a few questions about the times you have posted for the above aircraft sir.
1. What is your source for all your posted times?
2. At what altitude were these times recorded?
3. Are any of the aircraft take-off weights listed in your sources?
I have a listing of all the Soviet turn times recorded at 1,000 m. and a list of about 85 A/C turn times at 4,000 m.
which according to Erik Pilawskii these are observed tests. The above aircraft are not listed for the sourced I
have and I am very interested in adding them if the source is solid.
Thank you in advance, Jeff
sustained 360 horizontal turn
The following is what I have on file for these aircraft. The 4,000 m figures are from
Erik Pilawskii's book Fighter Aircraft of WW2, A Comparative Study. He states in
his book that the figures are observed. The 1,000 m figures are Soviet turn times.
Ki-43-I - 12.5-13 sec 10.8-11/600 m from pilots handbook. (5,254 lb.)
A6M2 - 13-14 sec 14.1/4,000 m (5,314 lb.)
A6M3 - 14-15 sec 15.0/4,000 m (5,609 lb.)
A6M5 - 15-16 sec 17.0/4,000 m (5,975 lb.)
Ki-61-I - 16 sec 18.0/4,000 m (Ki.61-Ib/6,901 lb.)
N1K2-J - 17 sec 18.0/4,000 m (9,261 lb.)
BF-109E - 17 sec 20.2/4,000 m, 18.92/sea level (German tests)
P-39N - 17-18 sec 19.0/1,000 m & 19.0/4,000 m (7,056 lb. both tests)
Yak-9 - 18 sec 16-17/1.000 m (6,327 lb.), 18.0/4,000 m (6,334 lb.)
Yak-3 - 18 sec 17.0/1,000 m (5,945 lb.), 20.0/4,000 m (5,935 lb.)
P-40F - 18 sec 18.5 A&AEE tests
Yak-9U - 18-19 sec 19.5/1,000 m & 18.5/4,000 m (7,056 lb. both tests)
BF-109F-4 - 19 sec 19.6 - 20.8/1,000 m (6,398 lb.) 20.5/4,000 m (6,372 lb.)
La-7 - 19 sec 18.5/1,000 m (7,276 lb.), 19.5/4,000 m (7,104 lb.)
F4U-1 - 21 sec 19.5/4,000 m (11,990 lb.)
P-51D (67Hg) - 22 sec 21.5/4,000 m (9,514 lb.)
FW-190A-5 - 23 sec 21-22/1,000 m. (8,974 lb.)
Two figures for one altitude signify left-right turns.
, Jeff
That's only what you think.OK then, I pulled the P-40F @ 28,000 ft. until I can locate and study the
report closely. I believe 18.5 is the turning ability for this aircraft. To
compare, the Spitfire LF Mk.IX's turn time was 18.5/1,000 & 4,000 m.
Since you mentioned it, seems to me the 23-26 seconds for the Bf.109E-3
was measured with some trouble with the slats opening...? I believe the 18.92
and 20.2 times were correct. 17.0 seconds would put it on par with
the Yak-9, and that, it was not.
That's only what you think.
Yep, me and all the guys who recorded the actual testing of the aircraft.
all Ki-84's used the same wing.Was there any changes made to the Ki-84 wing