Thank you sir. We can all get annoyed sometimes. Have a good day.
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Pinsog, your point is well taken, and I apologise. As Fubar says, we have a history with our Zipper, and sometimes go a little over the top in dealing with his questions. Thanks for calling me on it. I was out of line.
Cheers,
Wes
I don't know the exact date "pay-as-you-go" was initiated but I do know that the R-4360 the first engine project to use it. Also with this system all IP rights were transferred to the military. At least as far as manufacturing right were concerned.
If you read the history of Frank Whittle and the UK development of jet engines it is almost impossible to tell the difference between state and private investment and while USA spending on the military was higher than the UKs the percentage of state spending was much higher in UK, in the UK during the war the government controlled everything. Whittle worked for the RAF but had to form a company whos only possible clients were the government.Initially it was but Congress didn't like the idea of the services footing the r&d bill and industry reaping the rewards.
As the system worked in the UK prewar and during the war, it was next to impossible to lose money on R&D once government funding was secured. So they weren't completely out of line.
But like I said I'm not sure exactly how much IP was given away. White says all of it but he doesn't say if P&W retained any rights to it.
During early testing it would give a basic idea of what the engine would do at different altitude if there were an inadequate number of test-cellesYes Zipper, but that is not true science. You can run an engine at 10,000 ft up a mountain but what does that tell you?
From what I read: He joined RR in 1937, started working on superchargers in 1938.The trick is to find out what you can discover from a test like a single cylinder prototype and what you cant.
Stanley Hooker who made big strides in the development of supercharger for Rolls Royce also has this in his Wikipedia page,
"One major outcome of his work introduced a generalised method of predicting and comparing aircraft engine performance under flight conditions.
Good pointGoing on "location" helped in 1918 but you still have a truck load of variables.
We had test cells available in 1933?They had 15-22 years to develop climate controlled test labs right on the factory grounds after 1918 to help eliminate the variables and permit a test schedule that was more independent of the weather.
Not sure when the design started but it might have been around 1942: It was first run in 1944...I don't know the exact date "pay-as-you-go" was initiated but I do know that the R-4360 the first engine project to use it.
Did that change?Also with this system all IP rights were transferred to the military. At least as far as manufacturing right were concerned.
That's true, but...NACA wasn't setup to do, nor was it their mission to do the kind of work the army needed.
I'm 34Sir, I would imagine Zipper is a younger person that doesn't have the experience or knowledge of the rest of the group.
CorrectObviously he is interested and would like to learn
Not sure when the design started but it might have been around 1942: It was first run in 1944...
Did that change?
That's true, but...
- NACA's job was to develop the field of aerospace engineering and propulsion engineering
- Their work generally was based on coming up with new airfoil/airframe, new engineering and engine concepts: They did however test ideas out.
During early testing it would give a basic idea of what the engine would do at different altitude if there were an inadequate number of test-celles
From what I read: He joined RR in 1937, started working on superchargers in 1938.
Try talking to him like he's your grandson. Obviously he is interested and would like to learn, so let's be kind and teach him, enjoy the opportunity to pass on your knowledge. Remember that none of us was born knowing anything, we all had to learn 1 step at a time.
While this might sound silly, did any have even basic test-cells prior to that?But by 1940 most large aircraft engine manufacturers had test houses where they could control the atmosphere in terms of pressure/density and temperature to simulate high altitude flying.
Thanks! It's nice to be able to have exact (or close to exact) numbers (other members will attest to this).The official start date for the R-4360 was in November 1940.
I suppose you're right, this is more an applied research area than a theoretical one.NACA's job was to advance the theory of flight not to apply it to practical everyday problems.
I remember, there was a big hubbub in the 1950's when the F-104 was being built and the USAF wanted to make it their default fighter and Lockheed fought it tooth and nail: It seemed to be an IP issue and frankly, I'm not sure I understand what the problem was: There were construction pools made during WWII and even Korea. I remember you'd see numerous cases of different manufacturers building aircraft (some B-47's were built by Douglas).I believe that the government still owns the rights to IP paid for with tax money
Which continued through to Korea...WWII was a total war national emergency and some of the practices of industrial competition were overridden by wartime needs.
The F-104 had nothing to do with this?By the time Vietnam rolled around it was competition as usual and as it was a "guns and butter" war, there was no overriding national emergency.
It is weird that you don't have many contractors building one plane though... that seemed to have ended at some point in the 1950's...There still was quite a bit of spreading around of production, but it was in the form of contractors building subassemblies and the manufacturer doing final assembly.
So, GE won?When I worked at Lycoming in the early 1980s, the Army threatened to pull AGT-1500 production. At that time, GE and Lycoming had a very bitter relationship, and GE had a bigger lobbying budget.
Which continued through to Korea...
The F-104 had nothing to do with this?
It is weird that you don't have many contractors building one plane though... that seemed to have ended at some point in the 1950's...
So, GE won?