Zero A6M5c production figures

[wrathofatlantis]

Chat Gpt claims A6M5c and A6M7 production took over A6M5b production completely in October 1944 (A6M5b lasting only 6 months April through September), and that this resulted in a production range of 4858 to 5058 5 gun A6M5c/7s, with only 470 bs made...

This makes 5 gun A6Ms by far the most common Zero sub-variant... My understanding from photos and decal schemes was that they were rare. Is this really accurate? Did the A6M5b really prove that rare? Were 5 gun Zeros really that common?


Below is a fiscal production chart by factories, but no breakdown by variants. My impression was that the A6M5b production lasted into 1945... I find the claim the Zero was mostly made up of heavily armed versions hard to believe... Can anyone enlighten me?

	Mitsubishi Jukogyo K.K.	Nakajima Hikoki K.K.	Total
Mar 1939-Mar 1942​	722	115	837
Apr 1942-Mar 1943​	729	960	1,689
Apr 1943-Mar 1944​	1,164	2,268	3,432
Apr 1944-Mar 1945​	1,145	2,342	3,487
Apr 1945-Aug 1945​	119	885	1,004
	3,879	6,570	10,449

 

[skultew]

Chat Gpt claims A6M5c and A6M7 production took over A6M5b production completely in October 1944 (A6M5b lasting only 6 months April through September), and that this resulted in a production range of 4858 to 5058 5 gun A6M5c/7s, with only 470 bs made...

This makes 5 gun A6Ms by far the most common Zero sub-variant... My understanding from photos and decal schemes was that they were rare. Is this really accurate? Did the A6M5b really prove that rare? Were 5 gun Zeros really that common?


Below is a fiscal production chart by factories, but no breakdown by variants. My impression was that the A6M5b production lasted into 1945... I find the claim the Zero was mostly made up of heavily armed versions hard to believe... Can anyone enlighten me?

	Mitsubishi Jukogyo K.K.	Nakajima Hikoki K.K.	Total
Mar 1939-Mar 1942​	722	115	837
Apr 1942-Mar 1943​	729	960	1,689
Apr 1943-Mar 1944​	1,164	2,268	3,432
Apr 1944-Mar 1945​	1,145	2,342	3,487
Apr 1945-Aug 1945​	119	885	1,004
	3,879	6,570	10,449

There is the production chart of A6M during the war from 零式艦上戦闘機 2（歴史群像 太平洋戦史シリーズ Vol. 33）

Number of produced A6M5 Model 52 Otsu (A6M5b) - 344 (only by Mitsubishi) and not stated number by Nakajima

Number of produced A6M5 Model 52 Hei (A6M5c) and A6M7 Model 62 - 2282 by both Nakajima and Mitsubishi

 

[wrathofatlantis]

Thank you sultew!

This still makes the 5 gun A6M much more common than I thought, but far from 5000!

This chart below

Details of the later ZERO Fighters A6M5 follow-on versions

OK, last chance on numbers produced for the last few series A6M? Interesting info to add?

ww2aircraft.net

divides the numbers by fiscal quarters. I note the A5M5b period adds up to about 2058 total over the two middle quarters of 1944, while the A6M5c/7 period adds up to 1715 5-guns over 3 quarters. Perhaps the overlap month of September between 4 gun A6Ms and 5 gun A6Ms accounts for the difference? (However it seems unlikely that one month would cover a shortfall of 500 units...)

Assuming 2058 A6M5bs (by period) plus (by period) roughly 1600 A6M5 and A6M5as (last two 1943 months plus first 1944 quarter), this gives 3658 (or around 3700) 4 gun A6M5s of all variants. Since the 5-gun had a confirmed shortfall of 150 engines, it seems 1565 is the closest number we will get of 5-guns actually finished. I am still blown away by the scale of five-gun production... The figure quoted everywhere is 75 Heis (c)... 75...

1715 5-gun A6Ms (with A6M7), minus 150 engines to 1565, seems a much more likely total than 2282 given the total output in the contemporary periods...

This weakly confirm my impression that 5 guns was rarer than 4 gun A6M5s. But by nowhere near as much as I thought...: 1715, even if cut down to 1565 by missing engines, basically matches ALL A6M5 and A6M5as combined(!!!)...

 

[taly01]

I went through this exercise of A6M production a few years ago, I got it quite close to each variant that the Japanese table had, I never saw it before but I would give it two thumbs up. I can add that A6M5b was only made by Mitsubishi, Nakajima only made common A6M types after Mitsubishi had proved them.

10801 was the total of all variants in the Japanese table.

I got 10815 a few years ago so I'm quite happy with myself
A6M production Breakdown by Model, year and manufacturer

The common low figures given for A6M5c production were only a Mitsubishi production for a month, that figure somehow got copied for years after in English books.
I also agree that alot of the "5-gun" A6M5c/7 were possibly never completed as the engines were getting hard to find in last months of war. However there are pictures of a 5 gun A6M captured in Borneo 1945 (SW of Philippines), and writings that one was captured there with underwing rocket rails! So the 5 gun A6M did get around more than people think.

US Technical Air Intelligence Summary #25, also reported more variations in Zero guns than the "official" variants had, mostly that some had 2x13.2 nose guns!?!
Zero Gun variations in PI 1945

 

[skultew]

The common low figures given for A6M5c production were only a Mitsubishi production for a month, that figure somehow got copied for years after in English books.

Yeah. I think it is because Jiro Horikoshi in one of his early books wrote that A6M5 Hei was produced in number ~less than 100 (don't remember exact one) and it was later quoted in many books.
Long time I thought that there were only ~100 armored Zero before found more info

US Technical Air Intelligence Summary #25, also reported more variations in Zero guns than the "official" variants had, mostly that some had 2x13.2 nose guns!?!
Zero Gun variations in PI 1945

Honestly it looks a bit odd and I'd treat it as intelligence data (at least unless there's a photo of it or a Japanese document).
Because I didn't see any mention of 2 Type 3 in fuselage at Japanese sources and Type 3 in the fuselage was sometimes even removed because it took up too much space.

I wonder if there's any photo of a Zero with two Type 3 in fuselage.

 

[taly01]

I was also skeptical of 2x13.2mm in Zero nose, however on that TAIC #25 they identify correctly all the wing guns as Type 99 (with the big recoil spring Oerlikon type) and other nose guns match IJN types, so it seems to be from relatively intact planes, not a random Ki-84 nose misidentified etc.
The question would be if the 13.2mm gun can be made to feed from either side L R.

 

[ThomasP]

re

The question would be if the 13.2mm gun can be made to feed from either side L R.

I think they must have managed it. The wing upper surfaces on the A6M5c and A6M7 with a 13.2mm Type 3 MG in each wing appear to have mirrored ammo box positions. The spent case ejection ports on the bottom of the wing also appear to be mirrored. So either they developed a L & R feed, or they turned one gun upside down(?).