109 flaps'N'ailerons

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Not usually though someone will dig up a quote from a pilot who did it

On the Bf 109 the flaps and ailerons are linked. Lowering the flaps also causes the ailerons to droop which self evidently reduces the upward deflection on one side.

Cheers

Steve
 
Also, on the Hiapano, the flaps don't come down with the flaps. The flaps are 2-piece and separate to adjust the radiator flow, am not aware of the flap-aileron interloc system type on the Bf 109. If it is, indeed, there thrn I'd love to see it in working condition.

I have the empty weight os the C at 1600 kg, the D at 1800 kg, the E-3 at 2014 kg, the F-3 at 2780 kg, the G-2 at 2255 kg, the G-6 at 2675 kg, and the K-4 at 3575 kg.
 
It's something nearly always missed by modellers too.

With the flaps fully up the ailerons should have a droop of 1.2 degrees

With the flaps fully down the ailerons droop by a very noticeable 11 degrees.

It is a progressive system. It took four complete turns of the flap control wheel to fully lower the flaps and the ailerons followed them proportionately. The wheel right next to the flap control wheel is the elevator trim wheel and a skilful pilot could move both together, compensating for changes in trim as the flaps were lowered.
This might be handy for normal use of the flaps, but rather cumbersome for use in combat.

Cheers

Steve
 
We have and are restoring a Hispano Ha.1112. The "we" is the Planes of Fame Museum, Chino, CA, not me. There are, indeed, two trim wheels. They don't affect the ailerons on our aircraft to the best of my knowledge.

One wheel is the flaps and the other is horizontal stab incidence, as stated above.
 
Airframes said:
I believe the elevator trim tabs were fixed, with the 'trim wheel' altering the incidence of the entire tail plane.
Click to expand...

Correct. That's how the aircraft was trimmed. The tabs on elevators, ailerons and rudder were only adjustable on the ground. It seems crude, but the only way to trim the ailerons on a Spitfire is by hammering the trailing edge!

The absence of any rudder trim on most Bf 109s was a serious oversight. At high speeds and despite the asymmetric fin, the aircraft had to be flown with rudder input which was hard on the leg.

Cheers

Steve
 
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GregP said:
We have and are restoring a Hispano Ha.1112. The "we" is the Planes of Fame Museum, Chino, CA, not me. There are, indeed, two trim wheels. They don't affect the ailerons on our aircraft to the best of my knowledge.
Click to expand...

It might have been deleted by the late models on which the Buchon was based, but I haven't checked.

Cheers

Steve
 
I'll check Saturday and report back. An interesting aside is that people like COnnie Edwards (one of the founders of the Confederate Air Force) reported strong trim changfes when lowering the flaps of the Bf 109. Former German pilots reported no such thing, When queried, they responded that Conie had not been trained by the Lufteaffe.

According to one German pilot who talked at our museum, if you rolled BOTH trim wheels at the same time (flaps AND elevator), there was NO trim change.

There are a few more stories surrounding the 109 if anyone is interested, but the trim story has been verified. If you move BOTH wheels the issue is almost non-existant.
 
GregP said:
According to one German pilot who talked at our museum, if you rolled BOTH trim wheels at the same time (flaps AND elevator), there was NO trim change.
Click to expand...

Indeed I mentioned it above (#28 ). It was one of the VERY few things which British test pilots who flew the 109 liked about its cockpit layout and controls.

Cheers

Steve
 
Hi Steve,

Didn't read post 28 in enough detail I suppose. DId not mean to suggest anything except the facts taht you, apparently, had already set out.

Also, I checked today at the museum and the ailerons on the Hispano Ha.1112 Buchon do NOT droop when flaps are applied. Otherwise the systems are almost identical to a Bf 109G-2 except for the Merlin and associated items and the wing cannons.
 

Bf 109 to 109F(no included)

flap full extend : 42°, ailerons down 12°30'
From new neutral position at 12°30', aileron up 25°, down 13°20'(up 26°20' and down 15°40 when neutral aileron = 0°)

- stick at center: aileron neutral position , flap up
- move stick to right, the link move left(there is a bell crank), aileron down
- move stick to left, the link move right, aileron up.

on the right; stick at center, turn the wheel, the link of flap move and displace the lever pin, ailerons down



On the Bf 110, the wheel controls flaps and stabilizer incidence.
 
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