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Indeed squeezing in more fuel and/or drop tanks for escort work would be a benefit but the Whirlwind was not intended for that. It was a home defence bomber destroyer to operate from British and French bases intercepting German bombers. Range was not a critical part of the task. Similarly in single engines types the Spitfire and Me109 had limited ranges because they were for the same short range interceptor or tactical escort roles.The Whirlwind had terrible range for a twin. Move the radiators and fill the void with fuel. But the new rads will add to drag and speed loss.
It's a fair point, and there's no need for long sortie time when you've all of sixty rounds per gun, for a grand total of about 4-5 seconds at 700 rpm. Once you shoot down your first or second bomber you're coming back to replenish anyway. This reminded me of the A6M paradox, where superlative sortie time enables you to stay in fight for a long period, but your ammunition capacity is tiny by comparison. IIRC, Midway, IJN fighters will near full fuel loads had to keep cycling back for ammunition.Indeed squeezing in more fuel and/or drop tanks for escort work would be a benefit but the Whirlwind was not intended for that. It was a home defence bomber destroyer to operate from British and French bases intercepting German bombers. Range was not a critical part of the task.
First define the task then examine the means available to meet it. For the same four 20mm gun armament the Beaufighter was intended for tasks needing endurance hence had a longer range. Equally hence, was larger and heavier.
Any good source wrt. the Whirly with beard radiators?Whirlwind tests showed that a beard radiator on the engines gave much the same drag as the standard wing radiators so the inner wing could have been freed up for more fuel.
Beard radiators? Has any RR inline been so equipped? Surely the smaller Spitfire-like underwing rads would suffice? Or how about something like the P-38s?Whirlwind tests showed that a beard radiator on the engines gave much the same drag
t's a fair point, and there's no need for long sortie time when you've all of sixty rounds per gun, for a grand total of about 4-5 seconds at 700 rpm.
The British lowered the rate of fire down to about 600rpm fairly early to gain reliability. But one extra second isn't that big a deal.If it's going to keep its low range role, the Whirlwind needs to move its now much larger magazines to behind the pilot with a (at that time not existent) serpentine belt to the guns. CoG will need to be compensated for.
Somewhere RR had a beard radiator. They certainly had them in 1940/41.Beard radiators? Has any RR inline been so equipped? Surely the smaller Spitfire-like underwing rads would suffice? Or how about something like the P-38s?
Westland had developments in hand for either a 12x.303" pepper pot or a single row 150 round belt fed Hispanos noses.We don't need to rewrite history this bad.
The British lowered the rate of fire down to about 600rpm fairly early to gain reliability. But one extra second isn't that big a deal.
However NOBODY had a 20mm gun that held more than 60rpunds (except the Russians) in 1938-39 or most of 1940. Which is why the Bf 110 used the rear seater to change drums, as did the first 400 Beaufighters and even the Japanese Ki-45 used the rear gunner to change drums on their single 20mm gun.
HOWEVER, people were working on belt feed guns and the British were working on mechanical air powered contraptions that would hold 110-120 rounds for the Hispano.
There was no need to come up with serpentine belts that would go behind the cockpit. Not unless you can come up with electric motors that can move the belts through the feed ways.
There was also a bit of room in the Whirly's fuselage for around 40-50imp gal of fuel (two tanks).
Once the British decided to go back the original French belt feed system and came up with the belt feed guns for the 401s Beaufighter there is no reason that Belt fed Hispano's could not have been put in the Whirlwind except that all development had been canceled at that point.
Unfortunately Bristol had several strikes against it.Unfortunately, Bristol was one of companies that, when it was about making over-performing aircraft, was under-performing.
The beard radiator is entirely from memory* but the Whirlwind radiator was a very poor example using the only available radiator type that would fit at the time of design and Westland were not happy with those and would have replaced them with others in a proper MkII. The beard was a known success for Rolls Royce and likely to be at least as effective as the existing MkI wing leading edge ones. However the existing installation still did the job for the MkI.Beard radiators? Has any RR inline been so equipped? Surely the smaller Spitfire-like underwing rads would suffice? Or how about something like the P-38s?
Westland had developments in hand for either a 12x.303" pepper pot or a single row 150 round belt fed Hispanos noses.
Whirlwind radiator was a very poor example using the only available radiator type that would fit at the time of design
Quite so. See The Westland Whirlwind British fighter aircraft of WW2 for the Hydran magazine system. However the Chatellerault belt system was the one that was actually to be used if a developed Whirlwind ever came to be.View attachment 798710
The guns were not belt feed. They had a magazine with a number of vertical columns that feed downwards and a feed system to push the rounds across the bottom of the magazine to the gun. It was powered by compressed air. Unfortunately the thing used many times the amount of air originally estimated and existing air tank and compressor could not keep up with one gun for very long let alone 4 guns. The famous one gun Whirlwind was the test rig for this, not a single large caliber gun.
About the only thing it proved was that there was space/volume/balance to fit 4 guns and a lot more ammo.
Rolls Royce fitted a Mosquito with beard radiators and their tests found no determinantal effect on performanceBeard radiators? Has any RR inline been so equipped? Surely the smaller Spitfire-like underwing rads would suffice? Or how about something like the P-38s?
Beard radiator?
You have a 386 sq ft wing which could be cut down.
changing to Merlins may require quite a bit of modification. Not impossible but using heavier engines that far forward harder than doing it further back.
Plane was also under 12,000lbs gross as built so heavier armament, heavier engines and more fuel also needs work.
Early P-38s went around 15,000lb with 300 US gallons of fuel and only 200rpg for the four .50 cal guns and 150rounds for the single 20mm.
Granted no Turbos in our British twin engine fighter but..............Going to Merlins and 3-4 20mm guns is going to run up the weight.
Some more than others. What did the P-51D compromise?Just about every airplane is a compromise
Some more than others. What did the P-51D compromise?