2nd Lt Lloyd Waterman's planes

[JBP41]

New guy here. I'm trying to find information on my uncle, 2nd Lt Lloyd Waterman. Specifically the planes he flew. He initially joined up through the Eagle Squadron, I believe in the third group to be formed, the 133 Squadron (but could have been the second group, the 121). So he initially flew either Hurricanes or Spitfires. I know he switched to the P47 when they were absorbed into the USAAF because there is a fair amount of documentation about a crash landing he was involved in (apparently not that uncommon in P-47s early on) where he was injured, but eventually able to return to service. I have not been able to find any information about specific planes he was in to that point, however.

He flew P-51s after his return. He was shot down (flak) in May '44 and served out the war in Luft 3, a german POW camp. There is documentation that he went down in a P-51B called Yippee Joe that was usually flown by Major Pierce McKennon. However I have two pictures, attached. One in front of what must have been his usual plane since he girlfriend and future wife was Gere. Another showing him in front of a row of planes in the distance. These are the only wartime photos we have of him with planes, and I've found nothing else online so far.

My question here, if anyone can address it...what can you tell about the plane pictured in the closeup photo with such a limited perspective? I'd love to pin down exactly what he was flying.

 

[Zipper730]

I like the broom "clean sweep".

 

[Crimea_River]

New guy here. I'm trying to find information on my uncle, 2nd Lt Lloyd Waterman. Specifically the planes he flew. He initially joined up through the Eagle Squadron, I believe in the third group to be formed, the 133 Squadron (but could have been the second group, the 121). So he initially flew either Hurricanes or Spitfires. I know he switched to the P47 when they were absorbed into the USAAF because there is a fair amount of documentation about a crash landing he was involved in (apparently not that uncommon in P-47s early on) where he was injured, but eventually able to return to service. I have not been able to find any information about specific planes he was in to that point, however.

He flew P-51s after his return. He was shot down (flak) in May '44 and served out the war in Luft 3, a german POW camp. There is documentation that he went down in a P-51B called Yippee Joe that was usually flown by Major Pierce McKennon. However I have two pictures, attached. One in front of what must have been his usual plane since he girlfriend and future wife was Gere. Another showing him in front of a row of planes in the distance. These are the only wartime photos we have of him with planes, and I've found nothing else online so far.

My question here, if anyone can address it...what can you tell about the plane pictured in the closeup photo with such a limited perspective? I'd love to pin down exactly what he was flying.

Maybe the quality of your picture is better than the scan but if you can read the stencil circled below, the first line gives you the serial number of the aircraft which in turn can give us the exact model, where and when it was built and possibly its service history. Unfortunately, it's obscured in the posted picture.

 

[Navalwarrior]

New guy here. I'm trying to find information on my uncle, 2nd Lt Lloyd Waterman. Specifically the planes he flew. He initially joined up through the Eagle Squadron, I believe in the third group to be formed, the 133 Squadron (but could have been the second group, the 121). So he initially flew either Hurricanes or Spitfires. I know he switched to the P47 when they were absorbed into the USAAF because there is a fair amount of documentation about a crash landing he was involved in (apparently not that uncommon in P-47s early on) where he was injured, but eventually able to return to service. I have not been able to find any information about specific planes he was in to that point, however.

He flew P-51s after his return. He was shot down (flak) in May '44 and served out the war in Luft 3, a german POW camp. There is documentation that he went down in a P-51B called Yippee Joe that was usually flown by Major Pierce McKennon. However I have two pictures, attached. One in front of what must have been his usual plane since he girlfriend and future wife was Gere. Another showing him in front of a row of planes in the distance. These are the only wartime photos we have of him with planes, and I've found nothing else online so far.

My question here, if anyone can address it...what can you tell about the plane pictured in the closeup photo with such a limited perspective? I'd love to pin down exactly what he was flying.View attachment 573058View attachment 573059

Resp:
The two photos show two different Fighter Squadrons (FS), note light vs dark painted area of the nose. Also note that the propellers do not have the 'cuff' of early P-51s, to include most D models. I suspect many in the photos are K models. Although some may be D models retro fitted.

 

[Airframes]

Neither of the two photos appear to have been taken in the UK, but might be Italy ?

 

[Crimea_River]

I agree. No sun ever shines in the UK

Also, note rocket mounts in both pics.

 

[fubar57]

Maybe one of the Mods to make this a new thread. OK, J JBP41 you probably know this stuff but its to give the guys here a running start. From Lloyd W Waterman | American Air Museum in Britain

 

[Wurger]

Maybe one of the Mods to make this a new thread

Done.


J JBP41 welcome to the site.

 

[fubar57]

His name is mentioned in Little Friends – US 8th Army Air Force Fighter Command – US 8th Army Air Force Fighter Command but with info that is known. If you're bored (for those unaware of this site) open the 4th Fighter Group section and sort by aircraft

​

....find all the P-51s that served with the 335th FS and cross reference the serial numbers using this site (for those unaware of this site)...Joe Baugher's Home Page I'm not that bored yet. There's 10 pages of P-51D/Ks

 

[fubar57]

So far he is credited with a Bf 110..............

 

[Dana Bell]

Those photos don't match up with WWII ETO aircraft. The second is almost certainly the 80th FS in the Pacific - a unit which flew P-38s during WWII. Could these be Korean War Mustangs?

Cheers,


Dana

 

[JBP41]

Those photos don't match up with WWII ETO aircraft. The second is almost certainly the 80th FS in the Pacific - a unit which flew P-38s during WWII. Could these be Korean War Mustangs?

Cheers,


Dana

No. He was neither in Korea or the PTO. Came home after release from Luft 3 and went to architecture school after discharge.

 

[JBP41]

Thanks fubar. I'm going to dive into that.

 

[JBP41]

Maybe one of the Mods to make this a new thread. OK, J JBP41 you probably know this stuff but its to give the guys here a running start. From Lloyd W Waterman | American Air Museum in Britain

View attachment 573062

View attachment 573063​

I had found most of this info. Some new stuff (to me) here though. Thank you.

I actually have the original of that POW Camp document you have pictured there, along with the photos I shared. My mother, Bret's sister (he went by Bret, not Lloyd, informally), who is 93 now, had those and some articles from hometown papers about his service. They give some detail, but not much more than I've found elsewhere.

 

[JBP41]

Maybe the quality of your picture is better than the scan but if you can read the stencil circled below, the first line gives you the serial number of the aircraft which in turn can give us the exact model, where and when it was built and possibly its service history. Unfortunately, it's obscured in the posted picture.

View attachment 573061

Unfortunately, no. The photo I have is no better than this scan. Can't read it at all.

 

[Crimea_River]

With Dana on the markings. 4th FG Mustangs had red noses and spinners. Second photo birds are completely different.

What squadrons used rockets?

 

[Dana Bell]

Hi JPB41,

There's clearly a mismatch between those photos and your uncle's history, and I'm at a loss to explain it. He was in the 4th Fighter Group (Eighth Air Force), a unit that identified itself with solid red noses. All other Eighth AF Mustang groups used solid or checkerboard noses with no more than two colors; each squadron had individual tail colors. The two Ninth AF Mustang groups had their own style of nose markings, and the four Fifteenth AF Mustang groups all were identified by solid red spinners.

That painted flash behind the spinner was popular in the Fifth AF in the Pacific, as was the 80th FS insignia on the nose. The zero-length rocket rails were not mounted on Mustangs in May 1944, when your uncle was shot down.

I think your uncle's story may be even more interesting than the family remembers...

Cheers,



Dana

 

[Crimea_River]

National Guard maybe?

 

[JBP41]

Dana,

Interesting. While I don't know as many details as I wish, I do have what my mother (his sister) has given me and told me. She's 93 and still around with a great memory. I also have a few articles from his hometown paper which do track his progress from Eagle Squadron to crashing in the P47 to his one confirmed kill and eventually being listed as MIA. Then a couple about his release from POW camp. None of them give much, if any, detail about what he was flying (except for the P47 reference re: the crash). I know he didn't serve in the PTO at all. I'll check again with mom about possible stateside assignments, however brief, before he was discharged. That could help explain the discrepancies in the pictures from what I know.

He passed when I was 7 or 8. I wish I knew him as I got older and more interested in history.

 

[fubar57]

Curious about the white nose stripe in the first photo as well. Never seen anything like it on a P-51 before