3 Blade Hamilton Standard Propeller

Discussion in 'Engines' started by sgtleehead, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. sgtleehead

    sgtleehead New Member

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    Can anyone tell me if the 3 blade Hamilton Standard Propeller fitted to the Corsair was the same as that fitted to the Hellcat and even the Grumman Avenger or the Curtis Helldiver SB2C. Was it the same model or similar in each case?

    I know the size quoted - approx 13.1 to 13.2 is similarly quoted for the Corsair and Hellcat. I cannot seem to find more in depth reference material in regard to this company and its products circa WW2

    Thanks for any replies.


    Lee
     
  2. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Like you, I haven't found a definitive answer, but, from looking at the specs for the prop on each of the aircraft mentioned, I think it very likely that they were the same prop, or very similar - perhaps with slightly different pitch requirements.
    I do seem to recall reading somewhere, that the prop on the Corsair and, I think Avenger and Hellcat were the same, but, with these aircraft and their operational theatres not being my strong point, I can't state it as fact.
    It's probable that someone here will have the answer though.
     
  3. swampyankee

    swampyankee Active Member

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    Try to contact the people at the New England Air Museum. UTC Aerospace Systems (formerly Hamilton Standard) is just a couple of miles away, and numerous HSD/UTAS retirees work or volunteer there. They may have the answer, or may know who to ping for the right answer.
     
  4. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    #4 GregP, Feb 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
    Well let’s see.

    The propeller for a Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat is shown to be a Hamilton-Standard 3-blade with a diameter of 13 feet 1 inch, propeller designation ????. Pitch went from 26° to 65°.

    The propeller for a Grumman F6F-5 Hellcat is shown to be a Hamilton-Standard 3-blade with a diameter of 13 feet 1 inch, propeller designation 6501A-0.

    The propeller for a Vought F4U-1 Corsair is shown to be a Hamilton-Standard 3-blade with a diameter of 13 feet, 3 inches, propeller designation 6443A-21.

    The propeller for a Vought F4U-4 Corsair is shown to be a Hamilton-Standard 4-blade with a diameter of 13 feet 2 inches, propeller designation 6501A-0.

    I can’t find the propeller designation for the F6F-3 just now, but the Planes of Fame has all the manuals and I can check this weekend. Interesting the F4U-4 with a 4-blade prop has the same propeller designation as the F6F-5 with a 3-bladed prop. Likely as not the designation means the two have the same propeller airfoil with slightly different diameters. Again, I can check this weekend … assuming one of the chief pilots is there and not off at airshows … they all were last weekend.


    - Greg
     
  5. sgtleehead

    sgtleehead New Member

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    That's all appreciated, thanks in advance,

    Lee
     
  6. Hueyman

    Hueyman New Member

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    Hello,

    Sorry to up this topic so late, but just for clarification :

    A constant speed variable pitch propeller is a comibination of blades and Hub, and are so designated as such. There is not a single designation number for the whole propeller, but one for blades and another for the hub.

    6507A is the designation of the blade itself, ( shape, chord, lenght, airfoil, shank design etc ... ) and for example the minus ( 6507A-1 ) means the lenght, in inches, that was sanded on blade tip to make it suitable for each type of aircraft and engine application. For instance, a B-17F blade is a 6477A-0, where it has it's original lenght, no lenght reduction.

    Then comes the Hub designation number. Simply, 23E50 is the three bladed hub ( DC-3, B-17, B-24, F4U-1, F6F etc ... ) and 24E60 the four bladed one ( F4U-4, P-47 ... )

    So such a prop is designated :

    F4U-1D Prop : 23E50/6507A-0(x3) : That describe the three bladed Hamilton Standard Propeller for the Corsair

    Hope that helps !

    Hueyman
     
  7. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Never did find out any more data. The part number are as stated and we have F6F-5 manuals, not F6F-3.
     
  8. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    #8 Shortround6, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
    A basic explanation of Hamilton Standard prop hub code goes like this.

    23E50

    2 is the basic model number/size.

    3 is the number of blades

    E is the blade shank size

    50 is the propshaft shank size.

    a code for the prop blade goes something like this.

    A-7027C-A -8

    A - (If used) indicates shank fairing design.

    7027- Aerodynamic and structural features.

    C- Operational features (may indicate particular deicing assembly), does
    not affect eligibility.

    8- Nominal reduction from basic diameter in inches.

    Obviously the hub designation alone doesn't help a whole lot and it may be quite possible to fit a prop (or the blades) from one plane to another if the blade tips are trimmed to adjust exact diameter. I have no idea what the max allowable "trim" is. This may also be a repair for minor tip damage so propeller diameters might be regarded as "nominal" rather than exact. What was done in a combat setting may be very different from what the FAA allows for civilian flying.
     
  9. Hueyman

    Hueyman New Member

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    Yup, thanks for detailing even further.

    Still we don't have the final answer, and comparing nowadays blades on both planes doesn't mean
    anything as many were suitanle but not originally designed for ( ex of current Yaks with Hamilton Std props )
     
  10. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Most of the current new-build Yaks have Allison engines and cut-down DC-3 props.
     
  11. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    F6F-3 has a Hamilton Standard 23E50
     
  12. Hueyman

    Hueyman New Member

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    What's the point of this repetition ?

    No, if you took the time to read just above messages from Shortround and myself, you'd see 23E50 means nothing but the hub design.

    To reply the original poster : Your answer is in F6F-3/-5 PoH, you probably can download PDF for a low cost on Avialog.

    Usually, propeller characteristics ( dimensions, hub/blade design, pitch settings ... ) are located on the " Aircraft description ", sub-category " Powerplant " of the Pilot Operating Handbook.

    Cheers,
    Hueyman
     
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