.303 Browning Flash Arrestor Omission on Hurricanes

Discussion in 'Weapons Systems Tech.' started by Crimea_River, Jul 11, 2016.

  1. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    This question will take a bit of explaining so thanks in advance for your patience as I know it's a bit of a protracted narrative.

    I am seeking info regarding the installation of the .303 Browning on the Hurricane, particularly on the 12 gun Mks. The Flash Eliminators were presumably omitted from the muzzle end when these were within the blast tubes of the typical 8 gun arrangement. On the Mark IIb Hurricane, and Canadian Mk XIIs, the additional 4 outboard .303s were mounted further forward and the muzzles protruded from the wing leading edge. See sample pic below:

    HurriIIb.jpg

    As can be seen in this pic, as well as every other I've seen of wartime MK XII's in Canadian service, there are no flash arrestors mounted on the outer guns, despite these being clear of the wing surfaces. I know of at least one museum example that has them and there are diagrams suggesting that these could be installed.

    What I need to determine for our MkXII Hurricane restoration project is the correct detail at the muzzle end for these installations. We have procured to date 3 original .303 Brownings, all of which were received with the flash arrestor. Here's a pic of the muzzle of one of the actual guns we have.

    RDB_6078.JPG


    The flash arrestor mounted on this gun is a MkII type, the middle one as seen on the right in this drawing:

    Components.jpg

    Here's the question: The guy who sold us the last specimen says that removal of the arrestor for our installation would be correctly represented by sawing off the conical portion of the arrestor between the cooling fins and the flanged nut, rather than unscrewing the entire unit. I found the following good pictures of this detail on another forum:

    DCP_9654.jpg DCP_9655.jpg

    Looking at a closer detail of the drawing above shows a part called a "Muzzle Choke" which, despite my copy of the drawing being chopped off a bit, indeed looks like the above pics.

    Capture.JPG

    Can anyone confirm what the actual detail is supposed to be for the outer guns? I can not find any pics that are of sufficient clarity to confirm what the muzzle ends look like but will accept a narrative description confirming what was done.

    I know that Air Publication 1641c "Browning .303 In. Mark II Gun : Descriptive Handbook, 1940" might have the answer but I do not have access to a copy.



     

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  2. Greyman

    Greyman Active Member

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    I have a copy of Air Publication 1641c, can you message me your email? I'll try to get the information to you.
     
  3. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Done, thanks!
     
  4. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Got some good help from Greyman and feel I'm close to solving this. If there is anyone who can find some good, detailed pictures of the muzzle end of a .303 as installed in the Spitfire or Hurricane please post.

    Much appreciated!
     
  5. MiTasol

    MiTasol Active Member

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    The only help I can give is negligible and comes from a scanned copy of a badly water damaged copy of the RAAF Armourers Notes
    Below is the equivalent page to your post #1 but showing the missing part in slightly more detail

    If Greyman has a spare PDF of the AP I would love a copy

    Mi Tasol
     

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  6. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Thanks all. Fairly certain now, based on pics and references, that the muzzle choke is the proper detail for our installation.

    MiTasol, he did not have a pdf, just a hard copy of the AP.
     
  7. Greyman

    Greyman Active Member

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    Relevant image attached.

    choke.jpg
     
  8. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Ah, very nice, thanks. It looks like the hex nut on the muzzle choke is slightly flatter than the one on the flash suppressor, so just sawing off the cone would not be entirely accurate.

    Thanks for the follow-up.
     
  9. MiTasol

    MiTasol Active Member

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    Great Greyman
    much appreciated
    Mi
     
  10. MiTasol

    MiTasol Active Member

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    #10 MiTasol, Mar 23, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
    Hi
    I just got a copy of the Air Publication on the Browning 303 Mk II. A note says it also applies to Mk I variants.
    Unfortunately it has been bastardized by removing the AP number and the date but my guess is that it is AP 1641C and war time so that is how I have labelled it.

    I cannot get the Mk II info to stick so will put in next post.

    The manual may be of use to someone.

    Mi
     

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  11. MiTasol

    MiTasol Active Member

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    From RAAF 296 Training notes clip.jpg clip2.jpg
     
  12. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    excellent work fellas
     
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