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If you were a fighter pilot in WWII, would you rather have the high rate of fire of the 50 cal, or the hitting power of the 20mm? I personally feel the 50 cal was plenty hard hitting enough to take out ANY aircraft, and its high rate of fire made it even more effective...the slow rate of fire for the 20mm meant you had to be a much better marksman...
20mm ammo may be more effective than .50 cal, but how many rounds can you carry?
Take a P-51; ~300 rounds/gun for .50 cals, 60-120 rounds/gun for the 20mm. It's size and weight that limit the 20mm ammo.
Here's an interesting reference site:
The WWII Fighter Gun Debate: Gun Tables
The US 20mm Hispano round is ~1/2 inch longer than the .50cal Browning round and is ~ 3 x as heavy. The P-51D carried 1840 rounds of .50cal. That would limit the P-51 to ~600 total rounds for four 20mm by weight, about 150 rounds/gun.P51 should have been able to carry more than 120 rounds per gun. The wing had similar volume to a Tempest which carried 200 rounds per gun.
The P-51 wing area was 235 sq ft, the Tempest was 302 sq ft. The Tempest wing was also thicker. The Tempest was a a much larger aircraft, weighing ~50% more empty than a P-51, ~11,400 lbs to ~7,600 lbs.P51 should have been able to carry more than 120 rounds per gun. The wing had similar volume to a Tempest which carried 200 rounds per gun.
The 20mm Hispano is ~1/2 inch longer than the .50cal Browning and is ~ 3 x as heavy. The P-51D carried 1840 rounds of .50cal. That would limit the P-51 to ~600 total rounds for four 20mm by weight, about 150 rounds/gun.
The Tempest wing was thicker than the Mustang, so it's not surprising it would carry more ammo.
The P-51s with cannon could carry up to 125rpg. They came after the drums, no 60 round capacity problem. Weight shouldn't have been a big issue as the ones with cannon didn't carry bombs or drop tanks so there is nothing to trade off.
The A-36 and P-51A carried two .50s in each wing and carried 250rpg for the inner guns and 350rpg for the outer guns. As did P-51Bs & Cs.
What a hypothetical version of a P-51D might carry may be a different discussion.
I think it's worth remembering that the Tempest had the Hispano V not the Hispano II.
So 6 x 0.5 M2 weighs more than 4 x 20mm - 174kg vs 168kg
it has an almost identical M/V - 880 m/s vs 840 m/s
it also had a near identical ROF - 800 rpm vs 750 rpm
The 0.5 was shorter 1.65m vs 2.184 meters
plus the 20mm almost certainly had slightly better ballistics
Me, I would take the 4 x 20mm every time.
So 6 x 0.5 M2 weighs more than 4 x 20mm - 174kg vs 168kg
It's like asking which is a better engine, one that gives you acceleration or one that gives you cruise; are you running the Indy 500 or a 1/4 mile NHRA race?
I think it's worth remembering that the Tempest had the Hispano V not the Hispano II.
So 6 x 0.5 M2 weighs more than 4 x 20mm - 174kg vs 168kg
it has an almost identical M/V - 880 m/s vs 840 m/s
it also had a near identical ROF - 800 rpm vs 750 rpm
The 0.5 was shorter 1.65m vs 2.184 meters
plus the 20mm almost certainly had slightly better ballistics
Me, I would take the 4 x 20mm every time.
That was the issue in 1940/41, no one had anything reliable with a high rate of fire. The UK and USA made different choices for different reasons. The discussion today is about the two types after they were sorted and while the cannon may be more effective in a fighter it didn't adapt well to a daylight bombers defence.I think there is room here for a few more variables. First, if instead of 6 x .50s one went with 4 but increased the ammo it would give a commensurate increase in trigger time. Second, I think in combat there is a "it depends". Reliability would be number one, or in other words knowing that when I squeezed the trigger that the guns would work. I would take reliability as my number one choice, then increased rounds count (longer trigger time / Mk14 type gunsight?) until I became a confident shooter, then would switch to heavier caliber.
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Biff
I think that there was also another aspect to logistics, the amount of investment in production capacity and guns/ rounds of ammunition already made.I don't think I have seen a mention, except in passing, of one of the big reasons the US chose the M2. Production and logistics standardization. Yes, most upper echelon folks knew there were "better" solutions, but also had fears that production or logistics bottlenecks might be leaving fighting outfits with the wrong ammo. Or tools to fix, or whatever else. If everybody uses the same type of item, everybody always gets the right item. As our log tails got better organized, this was less of a real concern, but always remained as a BIG ghost in everybody's thinking. Standardization was viewed by many as a key to large production numbers. As an illustration - was the Sherman a good tank? Maybe, and certainly nowhere near as good, one for one, as many of the German tanks it met. But we could build thousands of them, and keep them in service, because of (relative) standardization. Assurance of meeting the level of performance required, at most times, trumped "best". The M2 performed well enough, often enough, to be the simplest solution. Again, it hadn't the highest RoF, or the highest projectile weight. But, it was the best compromise solution available.
And don't forget other production issues. If the US wants to use Hisso V cannons in everything, where is that huge number of weapons going to come from? License manufacture is an artform, from initial negotiations, to actual production line problem solving. A whole can of worms that many - right or wrong, better or worse - would not at that time willingly opened.
Most of what we are discussing here was also known to the production planners back then. If my goal is to present the "fightingest" weapons & force available, I would agree, mostly, with them. We get the Monday Morning Quarterback experience. They didn't have that option.
I think it depends on your mission. The British liked that set up, and the USN moved that way too. The USAAC even went with it in the P-61, and remember many of those did not have the 4 x .50cal turret mounted. In many mission though, more ammo may be what you need at the cost of reduced firepower; escort and interception of dive bombers come to mind.
It's like asking which is a better engine, one that gives you acceleration or one that gives you cruise; are you running the Indy 500 or a 1/4 mile NHRA race?
I think there is room here for a few more variables. First, if instead of 6 x .50s one went with 4 but increased the ammo it would give a commensurate increase in trigger time. Second, I think in combat there is a "it depends". Reliability would be number one, or in other words knowing that when I squeezed the trigger that the guns would work. I would take reliability as my number one choice, then increased rounds count (longer trigger time / Mk14 type gunsight?) until I became a confident shooter, then would switch to heavier caliber.
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Biff