A-10 to the Ukrainians? Recent comments by the Air Force secretary suggest a way out for the USAF from A-10 ownership

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 28, 2022

Ovod said:
How about the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior? Strictly speaking not an attack helicopter as such. but could be used as one , and has been used as one before. I believe it has been recently retired from US Army service - could be a lot of airframes still in storage?

It would be an aircraft easily available, but NOT OPTIMAL. It was already over-weighted and it would likely be eaten alive by the Russian defenses. It's too slow with all the equipment and armament.

When we flew into Iraq, we escorted the 58D's with our UH-60s, and carried their DART teams in case one broke down. We had to slow down so much because they could not keep up with us. One did in fact have an issue when its chin bubble blew out while firing its .50 cal. They had to jerry rig a piece of sheet metal to it at a Polish base in Babylon.

The best use of the 58D is in tandem with an attack helicopter like an Apache where it is not directly engaging the enemy but used as a scout that "paints" the target for the attack helicopters who engage the target. Hence why it was retired, when the Apache-Longbow came online. The slow obsolete 58D was no longer needed.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Aug 28, 2022

Off-topic, but just for our Polish friends here. These were taken that day in Babylon at the Polish Camp. We spent a few hours there while the 58D was being temporarily repaired.

SaparotRob · Aug 28, 2022

Cool!

Glider · Sep 3, 2022

FLYBOYJ said:
Another option is bringing up the old guard and using UH-1s. They are plentiful, easy to work on, plenty of spares and well proven. On the down side, they are slow (compared to newer birds) and would need heat suppression kits for the exhaust depending on the model.

View attachment 684248

I was wondering how many AH1 attack helicopters might be sitting in storage in the desert. The TOW may be an old AT missile, but would more than suffice for the majority of targets available

Dimlee · Sep 11, 2022

We just need some Brrrt, once again.

Admiral Beez · Friday at 9:23 AM

Hmm.... how about A-10s to Ukraine via Jordan?

U.S. Senate Directs Pentagon to Explore Transferring Retired A-10s to Royal Jordanian Air Force

The legendary “Warthog” may find a new home in the Middle East. The United States Senate Committee on Armed Services has directed the Secretary of

theaviationist.com

And throw in two hundred Jordanian Challenger 1s please.

Sabrejet · Friday at 9:32 AM

Admiral Beez said:
Hmm.... how about A-10s to Ukraine via Jordan?

U.S. Senate Directs Pentagon to Explore Transferring Retired A-10s to Royal Jordanian Air Force

The legendary “Warthog” may find a new home in the Middle East. The United States Senate Committee on Armed Services has directed the Secretary of

theaviationist.com

And throw in four hundred Challenger 1s please.

I still think retiring A-10s is premature.

SaparotRob · Friday at 9:54 AM

I believe the A-10, as much as I love the thing, is not viable anymore. I've been corrupted by the grownups here. Although, it'd be cool to watch one take out a Shahed. Heaven help everyone down range.

Admiral Beez · Friday at 10:10 AM

SaparotRob said:
I believe the A-10, as much as I love the thing, is not viable anymore.

Are you telling me that if Ukraine had two squadrons of A-10s in Feb 2022 when that Russian convoy was jammed, with limited air defence, that the Thunderbolts would not have been useful?

Russian Kyiv convoy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for 2024-2025, once the UAF's F-16s and anti-radar systems make hay of Russia's SAMs, the A-10s would still be viable, imo.

Ukraine's Pilots' Fly 'Wild Weasel' Missions That USAF Invented in Vi…

archived 11 May 2024 14:41:04 UTC

archive.is

SaparotRob · Friday at 10:13 AM

Kids pulling up next to the stalled columns in their Toyotas and tossing a Molotov cocktail was effective. Relying on on your enemy to remain stupid is not a good strategy.

GrauGeist · Friday at 10:19 AM

However, the F-16 & A-10 were designed for this exact situation.

Yes, they are "old", but only the airframes - the onboard offensive/defensive systems are extremely modern and have evolved for 21st century warfare.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Friday at 10:29 AM

SaparotRob said:
Kids pulling up next to the stalled columns in their Toyotas and tossing a Molotov cocktail was effective. Relying on on your enemy to remain stupid is not a good strategy.

Correct, but that stalled convoy, paired with the limited air superiority, was an A-10 pilot's wet dream.

It would have been the Highway of Death Part Deux.

But then again, to be fair, a squadron of F-15s or F-18s armed with JDAMs, or even a company of AH-64 Longbows could have achieved the same results.

But it would have been nice to see the A-10 get sent off with a successful bang.

SaparotRob · Friday at 10:50 AM

Full disclosure: I would have loved to have seen the Warthog tear through those columns. It was the dream scenario, I imagine, for the pilots as well as A-10 fans.
Lost opportunity.

GrauGeist · Friday at 10:51 AM

SaparotRob said:
Relying on on your enemy to remain stupid is not a good strategy

I meant to point out that one consistent in this war, has been Russian military ineptitude.

Recent examples, would be the UAF catching and hammering a Russian column in January near Kharkiv.

Ukrainians did it again in April (Kreminsk) where the Russians lost all eleven tanks.

More recently, again near Kharkiv, a Russian column got corn-holed the last week of June.

SaparotRob · Friday at 10:57 AM

It's frustrating, as an armchair strategist, last class, to not want to count on Russian ineptitude. Maybe they might land on someone good to lead after the next round of purges. I'm aware Putin values loyalty over talent.

Admiral Beez · Friday at 11:05 AM

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
But it would have been nice to see the A-10 get sent off with a successful bang.

Absolutely! And it would look sharp in UAF garb.

SaparotRob · 2024-07-14T15:48:44-0400

Admiral Beez said:
Are you telling me that if Ukraine had two squadrons of A-10s in Feb 2022 when that Russian convoy was jammed, with limited air defence, that the Thunderbolts would not have been useful?

No. It would have been its perfect, one for the history books, viral video moment.
What are the odds of that happening again?

Snautzer01 · 2024-07-14T15:51:57-0400

SaparotRob said:
No. It would have been its perfect, one for the history books, viral video moment.
What are the odds of that happening again?

Better then

SaparotRob · 2024-07-14T15:56:49-0400

I mean, blowing the crap out of a line of Scooby Doo vans, golf carts, a couple of BMP-1s towing some shopping carts will be as good as it might get. Not a very viral moment, unless you add "Yakety Sax" to sound track.

ThomasP · 2024-07-14T17:44:07-0400

I think it depends on what Russia tries next. If they do another cross border attack then A-10s could be very useful for disrupting and/or stopping the lead elements. Train-busting and railroad ruining is another mission that could use some A-10 TLC.

As has already been stated elsewhere in the thread, they would need top cover for any attacks at significant distance behind the Russian lines.

A-10 to the Ukrainians? Recent comments by the Air Force secretary suggest a way out for the USAF from A-10 ownership

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