A-10 to the Ukrainians? Recent comments by the Air Force secretary suggest a way out for the USAF from A-10 ownership

[GrauGeist]

How well would the CH-47 serve their needs?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Two power-plants will require more maintenance.

 

[GrauGeist]

Now the AH-1, on the otherhand...

 

[Admiral Beez]

How well would the CH-47 serve their needs?

With MANPADS aplenty, this conflict seems deadly for slow and low rotary aircraft.

 

[SaparotRob]

I was wondering, that with all those Dnipro River bridges out, how would Ukrainian forces cross the river in force (queue "Ride of the Valkyries"). Ukraine was/is calling for more aircraft and I assume helos are on the wish list. NATO countries did send a few Soviet choppers. I doubt there were enough for a good heli-borne assault. While I'm aware there's logistical issues with yet another bit of NATO kit, landing and supplying a superior force on the southern bank will be an important supply issue as well. I don't think using "pool floaties" will fit the bill. Besides, if Ukraine is dumping Warsaw Pact junk, why not go all in?
Of course these CH-47s will not be going in unprotected. All that other cool stuff they're getting for the liberation of orc held territory.
Unless, of course the Ukrainian Navy has been hiding a huge riverine assault task force.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I was wondering, that with all those Dnipro River bridges out, how would Ukrainian forces cross the river in force (queue "Ride of the Valkyries").

Bridgelayers can do the shorter spans. But yeah, they'll need a plan to span the wider spots.

Germany lends more support to Ukraine forces with tanks pledge

Announcement of 16 bridge-layer tanks adds to news of howitzer sale authorisation

www.theguardian.com

Germany sends 16 armored bridgelayers to Ukrainian army

German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht greenlighted the transfer of 16 Biber armored bridgelayers to the Land Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. â Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

CH-47s are very vulnerable. When we were in Iraq, they were restricted to night ops only.

 

[SaparotRob]

Night assault. I like!

 

[SaparotRob]

Bridgelayers can do the shorter spans. But yeah, they'll need a plan to span the wider spots.

Germany lends more support to Ukraine forces with tanks pledge

Announcement of 16 bridge-layer tanks adds to news of howitzer sale authorisation

www.theguardian.com

Germany sends 16 armored bridgelayers to Ukrainian army

German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht greenlighted the transfer of 16 Biber armored bridgelayers to the Land Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. â Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

Good stuff but will this stuff actually get sent? Seem to remember promised equipment not actually getting to Ukraine. Prefer to be wrong in this.

 

[SaparotRob]

CH-47s are very vulnerable. When we were in Iraq, they were restricted to night ops only.

I didn't know Mi-8s are less vulnerable. I thought Ukrainian troops would be better off in a Boeing product. Correct me if I'm wrong .

 

[SaparotRob]

Bridgelayers can do the shorter spans. But yeah, they'll need a plan to span the wider spots.

My thought exactly. The "bridge-able " points seem to be vulnerable. Being able to strike at various points of your choosing, whether you do or not, will keep the enemy off balance. Remember the amphibious assault staging off Kuwait's coast? I'm not forgetting Market Garden either.
There will be many casualties no matter what. That's why Ukraine is building a huge army. I figure one way or the other, they'll be needing helicopters.
"Boeing, when you need to get vertical."

 

[GrauGeist]

The CH-47 is a great and versatile aircraft, but it is vulnerable even with M60 door gunners.

If rapid deployment of large numbers of troops by air is needed, perhaps the CH-53E/G/K might fit the bill, though I don't think the U.S. would guve any up.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I was wondering, that with all those Dnipro River bridges out, how would Ukrainian forces cross the river in force (queue "Ride of the Valkyries"). Ukraine was/is calling for more aircraft and I assume helos are on the wish list. NATO countries did send a few Soviet choppers. I doubt there were enough for a good heli-borne assault. While I'm aware there's logistical issues with yet another bit of NATO kit, landing and supplying a superior force on the southern bank will be an important supply issue as well. I don't think using "pool floaties" will fit the bill. Besides, if Ukraine is dumping Warsaw Pact junk, why not go all in?
Of course these CH-47s will not be going in unprotected. All that other cool stuff they're getting for the liberation of orc held territory.
Unless, of course the Ukrainian Navy has been hiding a huge riverine assault task force.

We should definitely be including bridging equipment and training in our tranches of aid. They will certainly be necessary once the Ukrainians go over to the offensive. Bridging equipment is cheaper than helos, and can provide continuous rather than intermittent support.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I didn't know Mi-8s are less vulnerable. I thought Ukrainian troops would be better off in a Boeing product. Correct me if I'm wrong .

I agree, they would be better off in a Boeing Chinook, however, I was answering a Chinook specific question.

The Chinook is a fine helicopter. Just don't fly on one that is not leaking hydraulic fluid.

 

[SaparotRob]

I agree, they would be better off in a Boeing Chinook, however, I was answering a Chinook specific question.

The Chinook is a fine helicopter. Just don't fly on one that is not leaking hydraulic fluid.

I had to read that twice.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

If it's already dry your ass is toast!

 

[SaparotRob]

I agree, they would be better off in a Boeing Chinook, however, I was answering a Chinook specific question.

The Chinook is a fine helicopter. Just don't fly on one that is not leaking hydraulic fluid.

Okay, okay, my mistake. I wrote "heli-borne assault" when that was not what I really meant. Can one think of OD helicopters and not replay Apocalypse Now in one's mind? What I meant was; if we happen to have a whole lot of CH-47s, wouldn't it be more useful (and in greater number) than the Soviet stuff. With the Dnipro River bridges out, helicopter airlift is needed.
I did imply using them as the tip of spear. Oops.

 

[SaparotRob]

We should definitely be including bridging equipment and training in our tranches of aid. They will certainly be necessary once the Ukrainians go over to the offensive. Bridging equipment is cheaper than helos, and can provide continuous rather than intermittent support.

I was thinking about those stretches where bridging equipment wouldn't work.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Okay, okay, my mistake. I wrote "heli-borne assault" when that was not what I really meant. Can one think of OD helicopters and not replay Apocalypse Now in one's mind? What I meant was; if we happen to have a whole lot of CH-47s, wouldn't it be more useful (and in greater number) than the Soviet stuff. With the Dnipro River bridges out, helicopter airlift is needed.
I did imply using them as the tip of spear. Oops.

Helos are always useful, but as Beezy points out, this is a pretty dangerous environment for them. Granted, the Ukrainians did chopper resupply and evac missions for Mariupol, at night, singly. But we also saw the Russian airborne assault shot up badly at that airport near Kyev. And how many videos?

The inference I draw from those facts is that using them for small tactical insertions or other special missions may well be useful, but fleeting them up for a major crossing could get a lot of folks killed. Speartip missions would surely be on the cards -- airland parties onto the opposite bank in order to secure the other end of a bridging operation, there's a good idea. But using them en masse is pretty goddamned risky. The place is rife with MANPADS.

 

[SaparotRob]

Helos are always useful, but as Beezy points out, this is a pretty dangerous environment for them. Granted, the Ukrainians did chopper resupply and evac missions for Mariupol, at night, singly. But we also saw the Russian airborne assault shot up badly at that airport near Kyev. And how many videos?

The inference I draw from those facts is that using them for small tactical insertions or other special missions may well be useful, but fleeting them up for a major crossing could get a lot of folks killed. Speartip missions would surely be on the cards -- airland parties onto the opposite bank in order to secure the other end of a bridging operation, there's a good idea. But using them en masse is pretty goddamned risky. The place is rife with MANPADS.

I was thinking more in terms of using them where the orcs ain't. They gotta' be better than what Ukraine is using now. There's got to be a lot of them with plenty to spare. They've been around since the War of 1812.
If the Chinooks are escorted by A-10s, however, I think we'll have something.