Again you are arguing for the sake of arguing, who cares where the fuel is, there is plenty of room in the rear fuselage and by the time you are at 25,000ft and set up for cruise it's down around 30G so instability is a mute point. You seem determined to make a non issue a major one.
A Critical Analysis of the RAF Air Superiority Campaign in India, Burma and Malaya in 1941-45 (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Kevin J
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Again you are arguing for the sake of arguing, who cares where the fuel is, there is plenty of room in the rear fuselage and by the time you are at 25,000ft and set up for cruise it's down around 30G so instability is a mute point. You seem determined to make a non issue a major one.
I agree with you but why stuff around, just put a rear tank in, even if it's just 40G plus add a slipper as required.
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- #1,123
Kevin J
Banned
40 IG and a slipper isn't going to get you there and back over hostile territory. If we could flood out the entire North German plain first than that would help. The La Palice raid was 370 miles radius, the East Timor raid was 445, both were over water with little chance of interception.
michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
While its true 3 Hurricanes are better than one Spitfire something to consider is can you pruduce 3 competent pilots to fly them and 3 times the fuel, parts etc. I don't know the answer to that something to think about.
It only seems that way PAT because you aren't paying attention. Go back and read the past few pages. The Spit couldn't get there and back on internal fuel alone, if it could there would be no argument. The scenario under discussion (escorting a Schweinfurt raid) is regular (in front of the cockpit) tanks, + rear tanks + slipper tank + probably wing-mounted external tanks too.
"Who cares where the fuel is" is relevant only to the issue of how much can you fit, and how much can you fit inside the airframe vs. outside. Any fuel you can fit inside the airframe has no effect on drag. Outside means it's going to cause drag plus extra problems in dogfighting.
The M.20 seems like a really neat and promising design, but was the extra fuel capacity related to the fixed undercarriage? Wheels and wheel struts seem to take up a lot of that wing space...
Here you go !
The Packard Merlin: How Detroit Mass-Produced Britain's Hand-Built Powerhouse - Tested.com
Few engines throughout history have achieved a near mythical status among its admirers. Fewer still can share credit for the rescue of an entire nation. Perhaps only the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine can claim both distinctions. During the Battle of Britain, it was the Merlin that powered the Royal Air Force Hurricanes and Spitfires that were England's only effective defense against German air attacks. With the battle won, and the engine's reputation thus established, the Merlin would become the stuff of legend and the powerplant of choice for numerous other aircraft.
Even before the 1940 air battles over England, it was apparent that demand for the Merlin was far outpacing Rolls-Royce's ability to produce them. The Ford Motor Company was asked to build 9,000 Merlins for both England and the US. Ford initially accepted the deal, but later reneged. Henry Ford explained that he would only produce military items for US defense. Interestingly, Ford of Britain in Manchester, England ultimately produced 36,000 Merlin engines, beginning at the same time period. Of course, Ford's American factories would indeed become vital to the war effort. They manufactured unfathomable quantities of airplanes, jeeps and other war materiel--but not Merlins.
Two Countries Divided By A Common Language
There are many obvious challenges posed by producing a British-designed engine in America. Just the task of converting all of the measurements from
Engineers at Packard soon discovered that Rolls-Royce did not design the Merlin for mass-production. The manufacturing tolerances were much looser than Packard's standards. This was because Rolls-Royce had never implemented mass-production techniques to their assembly lines. Rather, they employed highly-trained "fitters" to assemble the engines. The fitters filed or otherwise massaged individual parts to achieve a precise fit. They even tightened critical bolts by trained feel, rather than with calibrated torque wrenches. In effect, each Rolls-Royce-manufactured Merlin was a hand-built engine that reflected the company's traditions of premium quality and craftsmanship.
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YES you always train pilots to be competent or they are washed out or dead..
michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
No I meant did they have the capacity to train that many more pilots to the same degree in the same amount of time.
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- #1,133
Kevin J
Banned
I wasn't trying to be flip, I like the M.20 as a design, I really do think it was quite promising. What I mean is, as a quick fixed undercarriage design it had extra space in the wings because the wheels didn't retract. Could they put in retractable wheels and still have space for fuel in the wings? If so ... it seems like it could have been a great fighter and a good alternative to or replacement for the Hurricane...
YES !! or you went to the Army unless trained as an Engineer, Mechanic or other educational qualities.
The reality is that in the early days of WW2 quite a few Allied pilots were pretty hastily trained in terms of actual fighter combat. They usually had pretty good basic flight training but quite often little or no marksmanship, formation flying, or air combat maneuvering training. Many went into combat unaware of the specific flight envelope of the aircraft they were fighting in, some went into action within days of their first flight in a real fighter.
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- #1,137
Kevin J
Banned
IIRC there was a paper project with a retraction system like the P-35.
michael rauls
Tech Sergeant
- 1,679
- Jul 15, 2016
I think my comment in reply to Dans" 3 Hurricanes are better than one Spitfire "are being universally misunderstood.
I meant 3 Hurricanes may by better but without the capacity to build 3 times the planes, train 3 times the pilots, produce 3 times the fuel etc. the point is mute.
My bad for not making that clear.
I meant 3 Hurricanes may by better but without the capacity to build 3 times the planes, train 3 times the pilots, produce 3 times the fuel etc. the point is mute.
My bad for not making that clear.
- Thread starter
- #1,139
Kevin J
Banned
Compared to a Mustang, internal fuel tankage was higher ( without rear fuselage tanks ), dive speed was 450 not 525 mph, speed with Merlin XX was 345 ( actual ) not 393 ( projected ) mph. With Mustang style radiator perhaps 20 - 30 mph faster, and of course it's made of wood, so can you safely operate it in the tropics?
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