A Shocking Absurdity - Jumo 004 Engine Development

[fastmongrel]

just a sign that the US was ahead of the rest of the world in mass production techniques - which wouldn't be surprising if you realised such techniques were invented in the USA

Brought to a peak of perfection in the early 20th century yes invented no. The Royal Navy Portsmouth Block making Mill, the first fully mechanised production line factory in the world and the granddaddy of all others.

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Portsmouth Block Mills - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you ever get the chance to visit its fascinating you can see where every modern production line technique and machine has its birth. The production line techniques developed by Frederick Taylor and brought to economic perfection by Henry Ford have there birthplace in Portsmouth in the factory built by Samuel Bentham using machinery designed by Marc Kingdom Brunel and constructed by Henry Maudslay.

 

[davebender]

The production line techniques developed by Frederick Taylor and brought to economic perfection by Henry Ford

By the late 1930s Ford had factories all over the place. Ford engineers also helped to build tank plants in the Soviet Union and the VW plant in Germany. So it's not like Ford's methods for mass producing automobiles were some sort of secret. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford engineers served as consultants for the Me-109 and Ju-88 assembly plants.

 

[Kurfürst]

My own 0.02 is that the Germans simply streamlined production processes as compared to prewar 109 manufacture, and spent less time on pretty finishing and other non-essentials. Virtually every major combatant country underwent the same journey between 1939-45.

Indeed. Finish become rougher where it didn't matter and offered the same functionality - its called rationalisation.

One of the most striking example of this I have seen is the pilot seat adjustment on the Bf 109E compared to later models. One the Emil its adjustable with a lever by the pilot, the mechanism itself is a beutifully cast aluminium piece of several parts.

On the F-K, the whole thing is much cruder - the plate under the pilot is a rough sheet metal, bent into to, with two a simplistic rails welded onto it, on which the seat rests; there a couple of holes drilled into the metal rails, and adjustment is simply done by screwing the seat into another position..

 

[koivis]

LOL!

The original comparison is just pointless. As far as I know, Pratt Whitney did not have ANY jet engine development during the war. Instead, after the war they built Rolls-Royce Nene and Tay with lisence, and only then started their own jet development.

The real figures would therefore be Junkers: 500 vs P&W: 0.

 

[Milosh]

LOL!

The original comparison is just pointless. As far as I know, Pratt Whitney did not have ANY jet engine development during the war. Instead, after the war they built Rolls-Royce Nene and Tay with lisence, and only then started their own jet development.

The real figures would therefore be Junkers: 500 vs P&W: 0.

True but there was General Electric, of turbocharger fame.

 

[norab]

While the portsmouth block mill is an early assembly line, it was not the first. The concept had been devised and implemented earlier by an American, Eli Whitney. In fact for a very long time it was called, rightly "the Amerian Method"


" Eli Whitney (December 8, 1765 – January 8, 1825), inventor of the American System of manufacturing, and the assembly line and was the first to use them when he won a contract with the U.S. Government to create muskets (rifles). Whitney revolutionized the American System of manufacturing in 1799, using the ideas of division of labour and of engineering tolerance, to create what is know today as the assembly line;"

"Whitney invented the American System of manufacturing, and the assembly line, and was first to use them when he won a contract with the U.S. Government to create muskets. Whitney's concepts were later exploited by Henry Ford and others in manufacturing industry."

 

[fastmongrel]

While the portsmouth block mill is an early assembly line, it was not the first. The concept had been devised and implemented earlier by an American, Eli Whitney. In fact for a very long time it was called, rightly "the Amerian Method"


" Eli Whitney (December 8, 1765 – January 8, 1825), inventor of the American System of manufacturing, and the assembly line and was the first to use them when he won a contract with the U.S. Government to create muskets (rifles). Whitney revolutionized the American System of manufacturing in 1799, using the ideas of division of labour and of engineering tolerance, to create what is know today as the assembly line;"

"Whitney invented the American System of manufacturing, and the assembly line, and was first to use them when he won a contract with the U.S. Government to create muskets. Whitney's concepts were later exploited by Henry Ford and others in manufacturing industry."

There is a lot of claims for the inventor of the American method a quick look on wikipedia will bring up at least half a dozen. Eli Whitney is now considered one of its earliest proponents but no modern historian credits him with first use. I wasnt claiming the Potsmouth Block Mill was the first assembly line but that it was the first fully mechanised factory that produced fully interchangeable parts in the blocks it made. Frederick Taylor fully acknowledged the Portsmouth Block Mill as an inspiration in the development of his production methods which Henry Ford put into such profitable practice at the River Rouge plant in Dearborn.

There are many claims for first use of assembly line production in my opinion Florent-Jean de Valliere is the best claimant Florent-Jean de Vallière - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Though you can go back to 210BC and the construction of Qin Shi Huangs Terracota Army for possibly the earliest example of assembly of interchangeable parts

 

[davebender]

I'm rather sceptical about this concept as each industry was different. For instance Krupp was one of the first really efficient steel producers. Many other nations like Japan and the USA learned to mass produce steel by studying Krupp processes. BASF was arguably the cutting edge for mass production of industrial chemicals. Steyr opened a new small arms factory just prior to WWI that was supposedly the most efficient in the world.

Mercedes Engine History | The Vintage Aviator
More then 12,000 Mercedes D.III aircraft engines were produced during 1915 to 1918. About 300 per month. That certainly qualifies as mass production.

 

[Milosh]

There was 49,800 Hispano-Suiza HS-8 engines made. Now that is mass production compared to the Mercedes engine.

 

[davebender]

There was 49,800 Hispano-Suiza HS-8 engines made. Now that is mass production compared to the Mercedes engine

France also produced about 262,000 Chauchat light machineguns. Both the engine and machinegun had serious reliability problems but the raw numbers are certainly impressive. Just more evidence that mass production was not an American invention.

 

[BombTaxi]

Well this has been quite the history lesson for me I would still assert that the US was the most advanced in mass production techniques during WW2. It also benefited from uninteruppted acces to raw materials and a freedom from strategic bombing that meant it didn't have to expend resource in repairing damaged and destroyed factories.

 

[Shortround6]

Well this has been quite the history lesson for me I would still assert that the US was the most advanced in mass production techniques during WW2. It also benefited from uninteruppted acces to raw materials and a freedom from strategic bombing that meant it didn't have to expend resource in repairing damaged and destroyed factories.

You might not be far wrong. Those 49,800 Hispano engines were the result of the work of 21 different factories in 4 different countries. the American Liberty engine hit a production peak of 150 engines in one day from a lot fewer factories than that in WW I. Some Individual American factories were able to turn out over 2,000 engines a month in WW II and few occasionally topped 3,000 engines a month. Buick managed to make 30,549 R-1830 engines in one year plus the equivalent about 2,900 more engines in spare parts.

 

[johnbr]

report no ju-004