Aircraft Modifications

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by The Jug Rules!, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. The Jug Rules!

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Hattiesburg,Ms
    If you could modify any aircraft from ww2(guns,engines, etc.) what would you do??
     
  2. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    an 8 engined lancaster zwilling style bi-plane...................
     
  3. The Jug Rules!

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Hattiesburg,Ms
    The lank already had enough engines already!!! :D
     
  4. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    yes but when i've got two lenghtend fusilages and a bi-plane wingspan of well over 150ft, i'll need atleast 4 more..............
     
  5. DaveB.inVa

    DaveB.inVa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer
    How bout getting the Lanc a second pilots station while your at it. ;)
     
  6. DaveB.inVa

    DaveB.inVa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer
    I wouldve gave most WWII bombers and fighters water/methanol injection. Fighters did use it quite a bit for extra power in a dogfight but the bombers could've used it to allow more power during takeoff. Almost all sides sent their bombers off with as much bombs and fuel as they could (adjusting accordingly for range to target) and Im sure the extra power for takeoff would've been appreciated.

    For the B-29 I've saw pictures of a couple versions with a probe extending forward of the cockpit for aerial drogue refuelling. That would've been nice. It would've been hard to refuel as many aircraft as were normally sent on a large mission, but perhaps have a couple squadrons equipped so they could really reach out there. The crew of Bockscar would have appreciated that on the Nagasaki mission as well.
     
  7. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    why?? the lanc's pilot often trained his flight engineer to hold the craft straight and level so the crew could bail out if the pilot was incapacitated..................
     
  8. DaveB.inVa

    DaveB.inVa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer
    Yeah, but had they're been a second pilot aboard then he could've quite possibly brought the aircraft back to friendly territory. The crew wouldnt have became POW's and you probably could get the pilot some medical attention. They might have even been able to save the entire aircraft! Pretty big gamble to me just having one dude in the whole aircraft thats properly trained to fly.

    Asking why to that question is like refusing a surgeon just because moms at home and handy with the knife!
     
  9. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    dude this is my modification, i don't want a second pilot's posistion and no-one will make me change my mind....................
     
  10. DaveB.inVa

    DaveB.inVa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer
    Never was forcing you to do it. Just a suggestion... perhaps another flight engineer or so to take care of all those powerplants then?
     
  11. mosquitoman

    mosquitoman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,990
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Saffron Walden/Sheffield
    Home Page:
    IMO the RAF heavy bombers needed an ventral turret so I would have put them on Lancasters, Halifaxes and Stirlings. It would have prevented a lot of german nightfighter kills as the Schrage Musik cannons were fitted to fire upwards into a bomber
     
  12. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    stop messing with my mod!!!!
     
  13. mosquitoman

    mosquitoman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,990
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Saffron Walden/Sheffield
    Home Page:
    I'm not, that was my mod
     
  14. The Jug Rules!

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Hattiesburg,Ms
    You guys can use experimental aircraft too. :thumbright:

    I would have given the p-38 Packard Merlins with 4 blade Hamilton standards, and as many 20mm cannons as I could cram in the nose. :lol:
     
  15. Lightning Guy

    Lightning Guy Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    The problem with cramming 20mms in the nose of a P-38 is that you run out of room for ammo. Lockheed did design an installation to fir 4 20mm cannons into the nose of a P-38 but the firing time was down to a mere 5 seconds.
     
  16. Lightning Guy

    Lightning Guy Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ok. I gave this some thought.

    Of course I would modify a P-38. In the first place I would replace the V-1710s with Griffons (the airframe could have handled the extra power and the engines were nearly identical in size). Since the Griffons had their own mechanical supercharges I would remove the B-33 turbos making room in the booms for a water-methanol injection system and a second generator. I also would have fitted the engines with exhaust shrouds to provide some residual thrust. Finally (to the engines anyway) I would have fitted the HS paddle-blade props.

    The airframe I would modify along the lines of the 'Swordfish' P-38 to delay the onset of compressibility and improve diving speed.

    Finally, I would have adopted the 2 20mm cannon and 4 .50cal armament that Lockheed was intending to fit to the P-49.
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Many bombers did have ADI (water/methenol injection - though the Allies used a higher ratio of water to methenol than the Germans). It is listed as ADI if its listed, but it was not critical for anything but takeoff, as most bombers didn't use "WEP" for combat. Check out the B-26 and A-26 in particular (the A-26 did use it for "combat power").

    By late in the war almost German/British/American fighters had water injection. The most notable exception is the P-51. It didn't have any overheating issues and the radiator thrust system worked best if the engine were running at full temp, so it was not felt to be useful.

    =S=

    Lunatic
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Some Lanc's did have a ventral turret or gun position, but for some reason this was not felt worth the weight, crewman, or obstruction of the bombay in most Lancasters.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    This is the plane I'd change too.

    Merlins (as suggested by Jug) would not have done much for the P-38, the turbo-supercharged Allisions were every bit as good.

    I don't think the Griffon would be an option without a very major redesign, as they are considerably bigger and heavier than the Allisons and require much bigger radiators. Late model P-38's had ADI (water injection). And you still need to mount one stage of the supercharger externally. If you're going to go that far, why not put R-2800's on it and get even more usuable power for less weight and avoid the cooling problems? Also, there was no US source for the Griffon and British supplies were fully utilized by the Brits.

    I'd have made the following changes to the P-38 (assuming no technology transfers from any other country are possible).

    1) Use a more conventional wing design, or a laminar flow type wing. Use squared off wingtips to ease production. Increase the fuel load in the outboard wing panels using the added space.

    2) Put the 3 bladed paddle props ala the P-38K on the production model. (or maybe 4 bladed - not sure of the issues).

    3) Subject to wind tunnel tests... extend the tail fins higher and raise the stabilizer fin to the top of the tail fins to avoid turbulence comming off the fuselage and/or wings and improve leverage. Kind of like on the North American OV-10 Bronco FAC/Counter-insurgency plane.

    4) Redesign the canopy with a bubble top and move the cockpit forward a bit. Angle the front down some so the pilots downward view is improved.

    5) Put at least a 4 mm armor plate over the top turbine containers and fuel feeds to the engines. Alternatively, install some kind of fire extinquisher system.

    6) Remove the 20mm from the nose and replace it with a .50 BMG.

    7) Install two 20mm's, one in each wing root, inside the propeller arc with 250 rpg (or more) with the ammo feeding from the fuselage using power assisted feeds. Stagger the left and right guns slightly to maximise ammo loads. (Remember the pilot is sitting more forward so there's pleanty of room).

    =S=

    Lunatic
     
  20. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20,349
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    WSM, England
    Ok, heres what id do.

    Take a P.108A and replace its 1350hp Piaggio engines with Griffons. I would then add a an anxillary jet engine to each side, B-36 style. I would lengthen the wingspan in an effort to increase altitude and also add a fuselage section from a P.108C (as it was bigger) therefore it would be able to carry more bombs 8)
     
Loading...

Share This Page