"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (17 Viewers)

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

By today's measure, that of a people's self determination, yes the Confederacy should have been allowed. The voluntarily joined the union and should have been able to leave it just as easily.

Again, what about the people who want to stay in the union but live in the secessionist state(s) (use of lower case is deliberate)? In the Donbas, those people who remained loyal to Kyiv had zero choice...their homeland was forcibly separated from the rest of Ukraine. Is that fair? Is that self-determination?

By the time of the American Civil War, the US had over 80 years' experience in evolving its democratic approach...and that was based on a number of centuries of freedoms inherited from the United Kingdom. Ukraine has had a non-autocratic government for, what, eight years? Democracy and democratic values require time to take root. Given the relative ease with which Russian operatives could disrupt the situation in the Donbas, what chance any referendum on Donbas secession being free and/or fair?
 
Last edited:
I'm under the impression that the Russian people are better informed generally than the folks in the DPRK. Do they have only approved sources of information or do they have access to international news? Do they know what's going on?

The state controls the media. Reports are coming though that Putin us losing control of that.
 
I'm under the impression that the Russian people are better informed generally than the folks in the DPRK. Do they have only approved sources of information or do they have access to international news? Do they know what's going on?

This is timely...from the BBC:

Two leading independent media outlets - TV Rain and the Ekho Moskvy (Echo of Moscow) radio channel - were taken off air on Tuesday night.

This follows a complaint from the Russian prosecutor general's office that both outlets have been airing "calls to extremist activities" and "premeditated false information about Russian servicemen".

Both TV Rain and Ekho Moskvy have denied the allegations.

They remain visible and able to operate on social media and YouTube.

Separately, Russian Wikipedia said that media watchdog Roskomnadzor had issued it with a warning, demanding it remove an article entitled "Russian invasion of Ukraine 2022", or risk being blocked.

Russian authorities and the state-controlled media do not refer to the "invasion" of Ukraine or the "war", instead calling it a "military operation".
 

We had expired MREs in Desert Storm the first few weeks we were at Moron AB. They were indeed edible, but in typical GI fashion we broke the acronym down to "Meals Refused by Ethiopians."
 
Back to the discussion about Russian equipment. Since the fall of the Soviet Union (and probably long before) they have always had issues with equipment.

I certainly don't think they are what they used to be, or what we thought they were. Russian doctrine was always to overpower with superior numbers. How do you think they beat the Germans in WW2?

I actually worked with Russian soldiers in Kosovo back in 2002-2003. There equipment was atrocious. They did not even have winter boots. I had one soldier offer to trade me his bayonet if I bought him a pair of US Army winter boots from the camp PX.

Their aviation unit had Mi-24 Hinds. They were constantly grounded for maintenance largely due to lack of parts, and aircraft looked like they were maintained by a kindergarten class. I remember sitting in the aircraft and thinking it would come apart.
 
Did we have this already?
Lukashenko presenting a map of Ukraine divided into 4 occupation zones (+ Crimea) and arrows pointing to force movements. One of them ends in Moldova
 

 
I'm under the impression that the Russian people are better informed generally than the folks in the DPRK. Do they have only approved sources of information or do they have access to international news? Do they know what's going on?

The media in Russia is controlled.


WASHINGTON/ST. PETERSBURG — "For more than a decade I've seen how dramatically the space for independent journalism has been shrinking at the regional level," Moscow-based freelancer Artem Filatov told VOA.

Speaking ahead of a constitutional vote that gave President Vladimir Putin sweeping powers, the former Echo of Moscow radio journalist said, "There is little critical reporting toward Putin's system. And many Moscow-based media are also under control [of the state or state-aligned corporations]."

Since Putin came to power in 2000, Russia has moved to limit news media and critics. Steps have included passage of a 2014 law threatening bloggers and a 2019 law to control the internet, plus measures on extremism, foreign interference and false news that can be used to punish journalists.

Media buyouts by state-owned companies or Putin supporters have led to journalists quitting over censorship. While some independent news outlets have survived or emerged, many are located overseas for protection from interference or retaliation.

Impunity has increased the sense of threat. Since January 2000, at least 25 journalists have been killed for their work, but full justice has been achieved in only one case — Anastasiya Baburova of Novaya Gazeta — according to a count by the press freedom group Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ). A Moscow court in 2015 sentenced the leader of an extremist group to life in prison for her murder. Two others were convicted in connection with the killing 2011.



The access of the average Russian to non-state-controlled media seems pretty slim ... and dangerous to its purveyors. Perhaps not DPRK-level control, but there's definitely a hand at the helm, steering the message.
 

Solzhenitsyn documents the use of Samizdat going back to the 60s in the USSR in his opus The GULag Archipelago.

The trouble with oppressing people is that they try to find workarounds.
 

Users who are viewing this thread