"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (36 Viewers)

[Glider]

When the dust settles and Russia is cleared out of Ukraine (not a matter of if, but when), I see them becoming a NATO and EU member.

I am reminded of a statement one of the Ukraine Leaders said about joining NATO. It basically went, whatever the future about joining NATO, if we are turned down, whatever excuse is used, don't ever say, that it was because we were not good enough.

 

[Ovod]

Indeed. And today that would mean mobile and fixed SAMs are targeted by drone and satellite guided HIMARS before the A-10s arrive. MANPADS will still need to be accepted. But, us armchair generals aside, has anyone asked the Ukrainians if they want and can use the A-10?

How would a HIMARS or M270 go about targeting and hitting mobile targets, such as mobile SAM systems?

 

[SaparotRob]

Big Brother is watching... and telling all his friends.

 

[Ovod]

As would any ground attack aircraft, so who cares.

Most ground attack aircraft try to avoid shorter-ranged air defence systems with the use of various standoff weapons systems, AGM-65, for example. If you are going to use the A-10 in a standoff attack profile way what is the whole point of the A-10's unique features?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Most ground attack aircraft try to avoid shorter-ranged air defence systems with the use of various standoff weapons systems, AGM-65, for example. If you are going to use the A-10 in a standoff attack profile way what is the whole point of the A-10's unique features?

The point was that any ground attack aircraft will have a hard time surviving in contested airspace.

 

[SaparotRob]

Check out Lazer Pig's video "The A-10 sucks and I can prove it mathematically".
It's about an hour of a drunken Scotsman ranting. Funny as all get out. You might also enjoy "Shut up about the F-35!".
Full disclosure: I am Warthog fan boy.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

How would a HIMARS or M270 go about targeting and hitting mobile targets, such as mobile SAM systems?

I'm pretty sure the HIMARS has satellite guidance. Granted that that isn't perfectly real-time, it's pretty useful, I'd think. Drones could have a role as well.

Having said that, I think the Ukrainians using the HIMARS/MLRS against supply facilities, generally immobile, is the smart money, because without fuel, you ain't moving, and without ammo, you ain't shooting.

Targeting supply depots will, aside from destroying resources, force the Russians to keep their depots further back, thus increasing the resource expenditure and attack-exposure of the elements bringing the supplies forward.

 

[Ovod]

The point was that any ground attack aircraft will have a hard time surviving in contested airspace.

Well exactly, including the A-10 - so what has it got to offer? Bear in mind that what the Ukrainians are looking for in any future combat aircraft deliveries is a SEAD/DEAD capability, for which the A-10 would not be the first choice of aircraft with most air forces.

 

[GrauGeist]

Don't forget the GAU-8 also has a much higher fire rate so needs to carry more. Either way though, people need to get over this almost phallic-like attraction to the A-10 and its gun. The fact remains that in a contested environment with both fighters and modern air defence systems (SAMs and guns), the A-10 would suffer very high losses.

Sorry if one's appreciation for the A-10's mission upsets you, but placing the Su-25 on a pedestal makes it easier to be knocked off.

The Su-25 is an aircraft designed to have guns installed.

The A-10 was a gun designed to fly.

The A-10's armor, redundant systems and electronics make it unique among combat aircraft. It may be an older design, but so is the F-15, F-16, B-52, etc., etc...

It's been posted elsewhere, but the A-10's loss rate during the Gulf War had a lower percentage for sorties than other types as well as a high pilot survival rate - which is most important.

 

[Ovod]

I'm pretty sure the HIMARS has satellite guidance. Granted that that isn't perfectly real-time, it's pretty useful, I'd think. Drones could have a role as well.

Having said that, I think the Ukrainians using the HIMARS/MLRS against supply facilities, generally immobile, is the smart money, because without fuel, you ain't moving, and without ammo, you ain't shooting.

Targeting supply depots will, aside from destroying resources, force the Russians to keep their depots further back, thus increasing the resource expenditure and attack-exposure of the elements bringing the supplies forward.

All perfectly true. Mobile targets only get to stay mobile because they have steady supply of fuel. Basically it means that those targets which cannot be attacked directly can be attacked indirectly.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well exactly, including the A-10 - so what has it got to offer? Bear in mind that what the Ukrainians are looking for in any future combat aircraft deliveries is a SEAD/DEAD capability, for which the A-10 would not be the first choice of aircraft with most air forces.

What does it have to offer? I think its proven its worth, especially when dealing with armoured columns. The aircraft is aging, but not "overrated" as some wish to believe.

 

[J_P_C]

Don't let it happen again.

one of my favorite places....

 

[Glider]

What does it have to offer? I think its proven its worth, especially when dealing with armoured columns. The aircraft is aging, but not "overrated" as some wish to believe.

In addition to this the one big fear that I have (and no doubt others) is of a Soviet breakthrough in one area or another. Both sides are stretched and no doubt there are weak spots in both sides defences.

Should a Russian breakthrough happen, then only aircraft can react with the speed and firepower needed to deal with such an event. Here the A10 would be perfect as it is likely that the attacking forces will outrun their medium / long range SAMs, and the portable short range SAMs would be disorganised.
If the Ukraine breakthrough, then only aircraft will be able to support them for the same reason.

In the present almost stalemate situation then longer ranged stand off weapons will be needed and the F16 is well equipped to fulfil this role (depending on what version is supplied).

 

[Dimlee]

In the meantime. Training of Ukrainian crews for Gepards has begun, most probably.

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-military-mastering-the-gepard-spaag-in-germany/

 

[Admiral Beez]

In the meantime. Training of Ukrainian crews for Gepards has begun, most probably.

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-military-mastering-the-gepard-spaag-in-germany/

There must now be hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers and airmen training with NATO units in Europe.

 

[Dimlee]

There must now be hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers and airmen training with NATO units in Europe.

The UK committed to training 10,000 at least.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

KYIV, July 17 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Sunday abruptly fired the head of Ukraine's powerful domestic security agency, the SBU, and the state prosecutor general, citing dozens of cases of collaboration with Russia by officials in their agencies.

The sackings of SBU chief Ivan Bakanov, a childhood friend of Zelenskiy, and Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova, who has played a key role in the prosecution of Russian war crimes, were announced in executive orders on the president's website.


The firings are easily the biggest political sackings since Russia invaded on Feb. 24, forcing the entire Ukrainian state machine to focus on the war effort.

In a Telegram post, Zelenskiy said he had fired the top officials because it had come to light that many members of their agencies had collaborated with Russia, a problem he said had touched other agencies as well.

He said 651 cases of alleged treason and collaboration had been opened against prosecutorial and law enforcement officials, and that more than 60 officials from Bakanov and Venediktova's agencies were now working against Ukraine in Russian-occupied territories.


The sheer number of treason cases lays bare the huge challenge of Russian infiltration faced by Ukraine as it battles Moscow in what it says is a fight for survival.

Ukraine's president fires spy chief and top state prosecutor

President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Sunday abruptly fired the head of Ukraine's powerful domestic security agency, the SBU, and the state prosecutor general, citing dozens of cases of collaboration with Russia by officials in their agencies.

www.reuters.com

 

[at6]

The main problem with exporting A-10s is how few there are left to send. Production really shouldn't have ceased as there has never been a suitable or cost efficient replacement.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The main problem with exporting A-10s is how few there are left to send. Production really shouldn't have ceased as there has never been a suitable or cost efficient replacement.

Yeah, there are not to many available. We just started building new wings to keep the existing airframes airworthy.

 

[GrauGeist]

The main problem with exporting A-10s is how few there are left to send. Production really shouldn't have ceased as there has never been a suitable or cost efficient replacement.

The F-35 will fill the A-10's mission profile, but we'll have to wait and see how it works out.

Unless Putin does something stupid...well, let me rephrase that: unless Putin provokes NATO, then we'll get to see the F-35 go to work.