Argus As410 / As411 Air Cooled V12

Discussion in 'Engines' started by davebender, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    As410. In production 1938. 28,700 produced.
    Air cooled V12.
    11.9L Displacement.
    459 hp.
    315kg (dry)
    Not fuel injected. But it did have a supercharger.


    As411. In production 1944?? 2,600 produced.
    Air cooled V12.
    ?? Displacement.
    592 hp
    385kg.
    Produced at the Renault plant in Paris. France continued production after WWII as the Renault 12S.

    I'm not aware of other engines similiar to these small air cooled V12s. Did they work ok? Did they have potential for further development?
     
  2. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    #2 Shortround6, Dec 30, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
    They both had the same displacement and used the same size cylinders.

    Actual performance of the 411 might be iffy. Post war versions ran on 100/130 octane fuel and while I have no doubt that the engine could reach the 600hp level using C3 fuel I wonder if they really got it?
    Jane's says that the 411 was running at 1.8 ata at 2000ft to get 600hp in the WW II version while a 1953 book says the French version was running 11.1lbs for take off for 600hp.

    "Normal" or climb ratings were 495hp at 3250rpm at 1.45 ata at 8,000ft for the war time engine and 440hp at 3250rpm MAP unspecified at 8,000ft for the 1953 French version.

    Hirth had a V-12 of identical displacement. Renault had a V-12 of their own pre war, it powered the Caudron-Renault C.714 Cyclone. America had the Ranger V-770. The English had the larger Gypsy 12 and the Italians had the Isotta-Fraschini Gamma and Delta, both rather larger than the German engines. Walter had two V-12s prior to the war, the Minor 12 of the same size as the German engines (all used 105 x 115 mm cylinders) and the Sagitta of 18.4 liters.

    ALL of these engines were supercharged.

    All worked to some extent (the Ranger seemed to have it's share of problems but it might have the uses it was put to) but the "potential" is in question. They were generally heavy for power produced and had cooling troubles. The air cooled V-12 being harder to arrange satisfactory airflow for than a radial.
    Please note that by 1953 Lycoming was offering a flat eight of 580 cu in (9.5 liters) with 400hp at 3300rpm and 5.8lbs boost from a gear driven supercharger and 100/130 fuel at 597lbs. (270kg) The French and Italians were offering inverted V-8s of around 400hp also.
     
  3. davebender

    davebender Well-Known Member

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    I have seen the Argus 402 engine project mentioned. Supposedly that engine would have produced 950 hp. Was it also an air cooled V12?
     
  4. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't been able to find anything on the Argus 402.
     
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