Army with best weapons

[plan_D]

You haven't a clue, I'm sorry. But the US forces were the worst ! They wasted so much material , they would just leave tanks that were easily recoverable behind because they knew full well plenty more brand new vehicles would come in anyway.

The Germans had to collect and make use of whatever they could recover and find. The Wehrmacht were much more efficient with their material than the US were. The US were probably the worst !

 

[Henk]

Yes you are right Plan D. I have a picture in one of my books where a Sherman is stuck in mud and the US army just left it there, but it can be recoverd easaly.

The Germans only left something if they knew they can not use it any more or they are dead. In North Africa the Germans did leave quite a lot of stuff, but they were in a rush to get out.

Henk

 

[plan_D]

When the Germans left North Africa a lot was left behind , but much of it was destroyed. During the North African campaign the Commonwealth forces were amazed at the efficiency of the German recovery crews. To them it always seemed the Germans would hold the battlefield to recover all vehicles left behind, by both sides.

 

[Glider]

I can second that comment of Plan D. In the desert my Father was in the Royal Army Medical Corps. On one occasion he and his team went to the scene of a skirmish which the British had 'won' to tend the wounded. For some reason the medical teams were on their own and the Germans turned up to recover the damaged equipment. He spoke German and it was agreed that the Germans left them to tend the wounded while they recovered one tank and stripped another two of some spares. The British REME turned up a couple of hours later to find the spoils of victory had flown.

It should be noted that this happened behind what was officially the British lines. In reality there were no front lines in the majority of the desert. These only happened if both sides were squaring up for a major battle.

 

[CurzonDax]

You haven't a clue, I'm sorry. But the US forces were the worst ! They wasted so much material , they would just leave tanks that were easily recoverable behind because they knew full well plenty more brand new vehicles would come in anyway.

The Germans had to collect and make use of whatever they could recover and find. The Wehrmacht were much more efficient with their material than the US were. The US were probably the worst !

Where did you get that from. I can list a plethora of sources from Ambrose to official US records to bios to third parties that if there was one army that could recover thier damaged vehicles, especially Shermans, and put them back into order it was the US. Read Citizen Soldiers, read Death Traps: The Survival of an American Armored Division in World War II. I have either interviewed vets or seen documentaries where vets of all levels back this up. Also watch Speilberg's documentary Shooting War, its even mentioned here.

:{)

 

[plan_D]

Stop reading American reports about how amazing they were. Read accounts of how U.S forces left trails of waste behind them. Read Monte Cassino by Matthew Parker, it has interviews from British, German, New Zealander and Indian troops mentioning U.S wastage of material. Read any book about German actions in the West, against the U.S, and all will have some mention in the amazement the Germans got from the US forces leaving equipment behind.

Sure, they didn't always leave their vehicles behind. But in no way were they on par with the German Wehrmacht in recovery. The Germans needed to recover their vehicles , and they made sure they did. Even if it meant towing a Tiger with a Pz.Kpfw III. And yes, that did happen.

 

[Henk]

Yep, the Russians were also like that. The Germans got a lot of T-34 that the Russians left behind. The Germans also used the captured US tanks to compare them against their own or use them against their former owners.

I must say that the US WW2 books are not always a good thing to read. I have read so much bullshit in them that I read a book a bit before I buy it or I look what it has in. Most of my books are from the UK, like Readers Digest books, but the few US books I have are great.

I do not buy a book that takes sides or only have half the info in it. It must be a book that does not take a side.

Henk

 

[pbfoot]

I must agree that the US was wasteful but they alone could afford the waste many years ago i had the chance to fly along the Alaska highway .In 8 months they built a 1520 mile road through virgin wilderness including lots of muskeg and permafrost which was a fabulous project in which the US Army built a highway in order to resupply Alaska if the Japanese had been sucessful in that theatre along the length of that highway it is still possible to see where once the heavy equipment had become stuck or broken down it was shoved aside and replaced with new equipment the sheer numbers of equipment left behind is simply staggering at the time it was possible to see parking lot sized areas just jammed with abandoned equipment it was also used to resupply airfields positioned along the route which were used to fly lend lease a/c to the russians it was called the North West Staging route and it is still possible to find a/c that didn't make it

 

[plan_D]

They were understandably wasteful, as you say pb, the U.S had an abundance of resource. They did not need to make the best of what they had. On the other hand, the Germans were in a desperate situation throughout the entirety of the war when it came to machine. They made the best of what they had and tried their best to keep it.

The Red Army were not so bad, they abandoned a lot on the retreat. Which seemed to be all too often until 1943, giving the Wehrmacht plenty of oppurtunity to capture the Soviet equipment.

The Wehrmacht managed to capture armour from all opposing sides, and did test many vehicles against their own. Sadly near the dying days of World War II the German efficiency in recovery began to falter, as it was hampered by lack of fuel and constant harassment from the air. An example lay in the Panther G captured by the 6th Coldstream Guards in the Ardennes Offensive, in perfect working order it was abandoned in a barn and named "Cuckoo" by it's new, British, crew.

Source

 

[Henk]

I think it must have been real bad for the Germans to leave their equipmant behind becuase of a lack of feul and the lack of parts and the unsafe air over you.

Henk

 

[CurzonDax]

Stop reading American reports about how amazing they were. Read accounts of how U.S forces left trails of waste behind them. Read Monte Cassino by Matthew Parker, it has interviews from British, German, New Zealander and Indian troops mentioning U.S wastage of material. Read any book about German actions in the West, against the U.S, and all will have some mention in the amazement the Germans got from the US forces leaving equipment behind.

Sure, they didn't always leave their vehicles behind. But in no way were they on par with the German Wehrmacht in recovery. The Germans needed to recover their vehicles , and they made sure they did. Even if it meant towing a Tiger with a Pz.Kpfw III. And yes, that did happen.

I could say the same about you, quit reading exclusively German/Brit stuff about how great they were too. To me much of this stuff reads like Southerners writing about the Union after they lost the Civil War. A lot of it is great but for example Parker's book reads this way to me.

Everyone wasted materiel especially the US. Hell even Bill Mauldin made fun of it. Willie and his pal meet a Tommy and the Tommy says "You Yanks leave a messy battlefield." Still I will stick to my point.

:{)

PS
At least I still think we agree that French bombers are fugly.

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

you wouldn't want the allies to get a hold of a panther or a tiger and copy it

the Germans had a shortage of raw materials and many countries hated Nazism

 

[Henk]

To me much of this stuff reads like Southerners writing about the Union after they lost the Civil War.

Please explain what you mean?

Henk

 

[plan_D]

He's claiming that German and British after-action reports are lies. And the, in actual fact, America were excellent at recovering material and saving men.

It's the nature of the U.S Army, and in fact it's people, to be wasteful. This shows in peace and war , they have an abundance of resource and will waste when there's more just around the corner.

I haven't read solely German and British reports, so don't assume I have. The interviews read came from all over the Axis and Commonwealth, and I'm sure if I went digging in my books they'd be Americans in there too.

How can you state that the Americans were the best when you haven't read up on German, Soviet or Commonwealth resourcefulness in recovery?

 

[trackend]

Well im not going to get too deeply involved in this thread but ill go with you D that the US did not worry about waste but then they had the logistics to back it up no one else did.
This is not from any book this is from an eye witness incident (my old man) his landing craft had been using the same two ford V8's engines for 6 months and the stoker had been fiddling and mucking about to keep them running as there where no spares availabe.
Two days after D Day with the usual engine trouble they where drifting about when a US engineering boat pulled along side and asked if they could help. They shot off back to they depot ship when then where told the engines where playing up. They returned, craned out the old ones and dropped them straight into the sea, fitted two new ones all in less than 30 minutes, then said take it easy mac and left it a cloud of spray.
I dare say the power plants would have been overhauld by nearly everybody else but with the USA industrial might at there disposal it was not worth their effort to recover or repair them.

 

[Henk]

Amen.

It is like that today in the US like plan_D said.

Henk

 

[plan_D]

Not just in the U.S - in the Western World, we are wasteful. It's a throw away society. No one repairs equipment anymore, they throw it away and buy a new one.

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

so different in the far east... i saw someone throw away half a burger cause it was cold, and 3 slices of pizza. it reflects on the behavior of them lol

 

[plan_D]

We have food to waste in the West - but we've earnt it, and toiled for centuries to become what we are today. I'm sure if there was a way, we'd send all the food we would throw out to Africa - but I hardly think they'd appreciate half eaten McDonalds and rotten eggs ...

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

im sure every side of the world has it's own hunger story