Avro Lincoln

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by wiking85, Apr 18, 2014.

  1. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

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    Avro Lincoln - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    What was the advantage of this aircraft? As far as I can tell it was just a slightly better performing Lancaster and really was just the same aircraft with better engines; why put it into service and not go for a better aircraft overall like how the US jumped to the B29 and B36?
     
  2. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    After WW2 I think the RAF realized this and actually used B-29s until the first of the "V" bombers came into service.
     
  3. wiking85

    wiking85 Well-Known Member

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    So why even build it? That's what I'm wondering here, it doesn't seem to make sense to me to even build it in the first place.
     
  4. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    It was an improvment to the Lancaster and it was assumed that it would have been used in the Pacific as part as Tiger Force.
     
  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    And it was originally going to retain the Lancaster name, as a continuation of the Mark. Having been committed to production as such, it served it's purpose in the 'standard' bombing role, with the B-29 Washington covering the nuclear capability until, as Joe said, the 'V' Force was in place. It was actually replaced in most roles by the Canberra, but did see active service in some of the anti-terrorist campaigns around the World.
     
  6. Piper106

    Piper106 Member

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    Had the Lincoln reached squadrons inlate 1943 or early 1944 it would have seen as a great advancement. Reaching squadrons when it did, after the end of WW2, it gets compared against the B-29, and that comparison is not in favor of the Lincoln. The Lincoln was an evolutionary advance over the Lancaster, but the B-29 had reset the bar on what was expected in terms of a bomber.
     
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  7. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    Please read the Wiki entry again, not quite "just the same aircraft with better engines" but "having stronger, longer span, higher aspect ratio (10.30 compared with 8.02) wings with two-stage supercharged Rolls-Royce Merlin 85 engines, and a bigger fuselage with increased fuel and bomb loads. As a result, the Lincoln had a higher operational ceiling and longer range than the Lancaster"

    A better idea of the Lincolns capability may be found here : lancaster | avro lincoln | 1946 | 0101 | Flight Archive

    The text may be a bit bombastic and I do disagree with the assessment that the Lincoln was the best bomber in the world at the time but the Lincoln was a definite improvement over the Lancaster and just not re-engined.
     
  8. R Pope

    R Pope Member

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    Remember, the next step was the Shackleton, that served for decades, so the development wasn't totally wasted.
     
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  9. Greyman

    Greyman Active Member

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    A good bit from Richard A. Franks:

    Although the prototype Lincoln (Lancaster Mk.IV) first flew on the 9th June 1944, it was not until 9th November 1944 that the second prototype took to the air. This gives some indication of the changing pace of the war, and the low priority with which the Lancaster's replacement was viewed. By the end of 1944, Lancasters were fully meeting the requirements of Bomber Command, and there was little need to quickly bring into production a replacement. With the changing tide of war, even the manufacturer's themselves were starting to consider post-war requirements, and so Avro was more concerned with new passenger carrying aircraft (like the York and Tudor) then the Lincoln.
     
  10. gjs238

    gjs238 Well-Known Member

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    Four Rolls-Royce Griffon's... ooh-lala :!:
     
  11. Koopernic

    Koopernic Active Member

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    #11 Koopernic, Apr 21, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
    Lincoln is essentially a modified Lancaster with wings strengthened and enlarged to handle extra weight and the additional power from improving Merlin engines. In fact the Merlin used is the two stage inter-cooled variant. Hence Lincoln would have had a much higher service ceiling, almost equal to the American turbo-charged aircraft.

    The reason one would choose this aircraft for production is simply that it could use parts, tooling etc from the massive Lancaster production system.

    It might take two years to go from a prototype to Production. Consider it took around 90 days to build and fly the P-51 but nearly two years to get it coming out of production lines. Consider that it was easy to build and test fly the Merlin mustang but it took nearly two years to get it out of the door as well. To build an aircraft like this needs thousands of drawings, when drawings are revised they need to be marked, approved, put into drawing registers and most importantly impacted parties informed of the change lest the thousands of necessary modifications impact negatively the change. Parts list (Bills of Materials) need to be created and someone needs to know how to order the right amount at the right time, having organized subcontractors to make the part and have a logistics system that doesn't loose them after delivery. Work Instructions need to be created and tested, in particular how to quality test something. Engineers are up to their neck in documents. In addition tooling needs to be developed and built. Most of all everyone should be familiar with what they are doing rather than relearning.

    If this isn't done your production line clogs up and only slowly trickles out aircraft that invariably need to be reworked. Instead of building a 4 engined bomber in 12000 hours it takes 100,000. Instead of building a single engined fighter in 2000 hours it takes 12000 (which is what the DB603 Italian fighters initially took)

    By 1944 it must have been obvious that to British planners that the UK was essentially bankrupt and being kept functioning at the level it was by lend lease. Britain had already entirely ceded the production of transport aircraft to the USA. British engineers and manufacturers could no doubt have produced some absolutely outstanding aircraft, you can see them in British secret projects volume 3, but ask yourself at what cost? What would need to be sacrificed? Building something equal to say a B-29 but powered by Centaurus or Griffon engines might have delayed the roll out of a new bomber or impacted Lancaster production as lines were changed over and perhaps couldn't have been ready in time. Lincoln on the other hand could be built and be ready for equipping "Tiger Force" for its task of attacking Japan from Okinawa. Given Japans complete lack of fuel and materials to defend itself the Lincoln would not meet much resistance. Perhaps the best use of British resources would have been to build Centaurus powered B-29 while developing jet aircraft.

    The only reason I could think of was that many seem to have regarded Bomber command as an out of control monster by the end of d-day 1944, eating up resources, saturation bombing cities to little advantage.
     
  12. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    Like Koopernic stated, the Lincoln was originally conceived as a continuation of the Lancaster line and was scheduled for mass production and service during the war, but delays and the end of the war put paid to that. Handley Page also had similar plans for the Halifax; the first was the Hali Mk.VI, which had better performance than the basic Lancaster Mk.III, but not what became the Lincoln, but the Mk.VI entered service at the very end of the war in Europe. There was also a straight winged Halifax with a wing profile like the B-24's Davis wing, it also had a greater internal load carrying capacity - it was not constructed. Again, these were projects that were halted with the end of the war.

    The British did plan for the development of aircraft of the same capability as the B-29, even a big six engined bomber project from which the technology the Bristol firm conceived went into the Brabazon airliner but once again, the end of the war halted military development. The Lincoln was a cheap option; Britain was officially bankrupt post war, but didn't want to be left behind. The operating of Boeing Washingtons was only intended as an interim until its jet bomber Canberras and what became the V-Force aircraft entered service, as the Lincoln was not able to carry the first generation of British nuclear bombs.
     
  13. vikingBerserker

    vikingBerserker Well-Known Member

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    That is very interesting, I had no idea the British used the B-29.
     
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