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Funny you should mention this. I have compared RAF and USAAF manuals, and the RAF did not like checklists! It's almost as if they felt their pilots were too good to need checklists. iThe Brits were a lot slower on the uptake - there was at least on Viscount ended up on its guts because the pilot grabbed the wrong lever, and they were behind his seat to make it worse.
Funny you should mention this. I have compared RAF and USAAF manuals, and the RAF did not like checklists! It's almost as if they felt their pilots were too good to need checklists. i
For example, the RAF versions of some US airplanes had re-written and considerably shortened manuals! Why did they go to so much trouble to provide LESS information? I don't know.
All WW2 aircraft had problems with poor control locations and ambiguities which caused accidents. The USAF and USN were not immune. For example, they did not standardize instrument locations until the 1950s. But my impression is that as you say, the RAF was worse. Certainly 1939 RAF aircraft were a mess. Douglas Bader, on his first combat takeoff, forgot to switch his prop pitch. As a result, he did not take off, and badly damaged his aircraft. And he was a Squadron Leader at the time. (I wrote a whole chapter on the RAF, although it needs work.)
Here's what was used when:
All B-17 airplanes 43-37874 and on used the pictured assembly for the central control panel.
All B-17 airplanes from 41-24340 to 43-37874 also used the same assembly, with minor changes, such as nutplates and nuts changing type.
Now, looking at just the Guard Assy. Landing Gear Switch (that's the official name of the spring loaded flap), it was used on all airplanes 41-2393 and on. That means it was used on all B-17E, all B-17F, and all B-17G. In fact, the drawing sheet is also used for the XB-29, and the B-29. You'll also notice that in the margins are drawing numbers for the YB-17, the XB-15, the 299, the B-17D, the B-17B, and the B-17C. I'm not sure why these are in the margins, but my guess is that those drawings reference this one, possibly in retrospect but I can't be sure. Those drawings aren't in the microfilm. You'll notice B-17G isn't shown on the drawing, but that's because nearing the end of development, sub-drawings were no longer always updated with the master, to save time by not doing non-essential work, as I understand it.
What this all means, is that the B-17E all the way through the G had the gear safety guard new from the factory, and it's likely that all earlier models were upgraded to include it as well if they were ever brought in.
View attachment 505034 View attachment 505035
Thank you for this research. This is great stuff. Where do you get these plans from?
So did these modifications by Chapansis only happen for a short time before the B-17E and before the spring release modifications?
In quote that is taken from Chapanis' autobiography, it says that(attahced)
Thanks Eli, this is really interesting research and a little disconcerting to think that there might be truth bending to serve a myth. I came in here originally to get a little more info on a story that I have heard many times, even in the bestselling book Black Box Thinking.
Your analysis feels solid, and even the small details about rubber being in short supply makes sense.
It is strange when you face a story that might be exaggerated or just plain wrong, but repeated again and again with many copy errors.
I will try to get nearer the source of the information and see what if any archive data there is in the U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory archive.
Hi everyone
I am new on here.
I am doing some research on the history of the gear and flap controls.
More specifically the incidents of crashes due to pilot confusing the gear and flap controls during landing in B17s.
In 1942, Alphonso Chapanis interviewed pilots who had survived the crashes in these B-17. After weeks of interviews he returned to the cockpit of the plane. He discovered that due to the proximity and similar shape of the landing gear and wing flap levers, a tired pilot thinking he was controlling the wing flaps to control speed, would accidentally retract the plane's wheels on landing, causing obvious catastrophe.
Due to this research, the Air Force attached wheel-shaped knobs to the landing gear control and wedge-shaped knobs to the wing flap controls so they wouldn't get confused.
I am wondering do any of the experts on this forum know any more on this? Does anyone have photographs of these controls before and after modifications were made to them?
Any help would be great. Thanks
Hi everyone
I am new on here.
I am doing some research on the history of the gear and flap controls.
More specifically the incidents of crashes due to pilot confusing the gear and flap controls during landing in B17s.
In 1942, Alphonso Chapanis interviewed pilots who had survived the crashes in these B-17. After weeks of interviews he returned to the cockpit of the plane. He discovered that due to the proximity and similar shape of the landing gear and wing flap levers, a tired pilot thinking he was controlling the wing flaps to control speed, would accidentally retract the plane's wheels on landing, causing obvious catastrophe.
Due to this research, the Air Force attached wheel-shaped knobs to the landing gear control and wedge-shaped knobs to the wing flap controls so they wouldn't get confused.
I am wondering do any of the experts on this forum know any more on this? Does anyone have photographs of these controls before and after modifications were made to them?
Any help would be great. Thanks
Hi everyone
I am new on here.
I am doing some research on the history of the gear and flap controls.
More specifically the incidents of crashes due to pilot confusing the gear and flap controls during landing in B17s.
In 1942, Alphonso Chapanis interviewed pilots who had survived the crashes in these B-17. After weeks of interviews he returned to the cockpit of the plane. He discovered that due to the proximity and similar shape of the landing gear and wing flap levers, a tired pilot thinking he was controlling the wing flaps to control speed, would accidentally retract the plane's wheels on landing, causing obvious catastrophe.
Due to this research, the Air Force attached wheel-shaped knobs to the landing gear control and wedge-shaped knobs to the wing flap controls so they wouldn't get confused.
I am wondering do any of the experts on this forum know any more on this? Does anyone have photographs of these controls before and after modifications were made to them?
Any help would be great. Thanks
Hi everyone
I am new on here.
I am doing some research on the history of the gear and flap controls.
More specifically the incidents of crashes due to pilot confusing the gear and flap controls during landing in B17s.
In 1942, Alphonso Chapanis interviewed pilots who had survived the crashes in these B-17. After weeks of interviews he returned to the cockpit of the plane. He discovered that due to the proximity and similar shape of the landing gear and wing flap levers, a tired pilot thinking he was controlling the wing flaps to control speed, would accidentally retract the plane's wheels on landing, causing obvious catastrophe.
Due to this research, the Air Force attached wheel-shaped knobs to the landing gear control and wedge-shaped knobs to the wing flap controls so they wouldn't get confused.
I am wondering do any of the experts on this forum know any more on this? Does anyone have photographs of these controls before and after modifications were made to them?
Any help would be great. Thanks
Thanks Big Jake, these seem like the modifications I am looking for. Thanks for the photo.Attached is a picture of the pedestal in B-17G "Sentimental Journey" that I fly in. The layout is very similar to the one described in Eli Joseph's post above. The flaps and landing gear on the B-17 are controlled by switches. The flap switch is the far right one, guarded by the two side risers. (the flap indicator is above and to the right of it). The landing gear switch is the one to the left of the two light switches, located to the left of the flap switch. It is guarded by a mechanical guard (colored red) that need to be raised when operating the switch. Our normal procedure is for the pilot flying to call "gear up" (or down) or flaps "half", three quarters or full, as required. The pilot not flying will put his fingers on the called for switch, call "identifying flaps (or gear) switch" and wait. The pilot flying will look and say "verified" if indeed the pilot not flying fingers are on the right switch. Only then will the pilot not flying operate the switch as called for. As you can see, no wheel shape or flap shaped switches.
Just as a side story - many years ago I ran a project in which a military transport (French) was to be certified as a civilian one. One of the issues that I had to address was the requirement to replace the landing gear switch with one with a wheel on it. Had to have a switch modified to incorporate the wheel that I had to have specially machined to fit.
Hope it helps.
View attachment 505167
Dr Chapanis (Johns Hopkins) was one of the founding fathers of The Human Factors Society. This was one of the early examples of using engineering psychology to good use. This example is a classic, and is discussed in Ernie McCormick's Human Factors text. Currell
By the way, this story as told by Atul Gawande and many others before him is only partly true. The accident happened as described, in late 1935. It destroyed the only Type 299. The B-17s did not begin flying until 1937. The earliest manual I know of for the B-17 was July 1937.
The first checklist was in 1935, for a Navy aircraft. (At least, this was the first official checklist in a flight manual. Presumably pilots wrote thing on scraps of paper before that, but I have not been able to find any examples.) By 1937, Navy checklists and manuals were more sophisticated than the first B-17 manual. So the Army and B-17s were late to this particular party. It does make for a good story, though.
Another historical footnote: The chief of the Luftwaffe was killed flying his own aircraft in a very similar way: he forgot to release his gust flaps! This was in 1935. I have written all this up for a book I'm working on, and an article "Who Really Invented the Checklist?"
Hi Currell. Thanks for the lead. Do you mean the example of gear and flap switches is referenced in this book?