B-36 in 1944

[ThomasP]

Hmmm . . . I am beginning to see a potential one-upmanship battle between the B-36 and the V-1 and V-2. Could the V-2 reach (and hit) an air base in Scotland? Could an improved longer range V-1 reach (and hit) the same airbase? The implications are interesting.

 

[GrauGeist]

Yes, except for one thing: there'd be no airfield capable of operating the bomber given its basic and max. take-off weights (~142,000 lbs and ~310,000 lbs, respectively). The airfields in the U.K. weren't designed to handle the lighter B-29 (~74,000 lbs basic and ~140,000 lbs max.take-off).

Plans to upgrade some airfields were in hand, but when the USAAF decided not to base B-29s in the U.K., these were put on the back burner.

So, for a B-36 to operate in the U.K., one or more airfields would need to be significantly upgraded to handle an aircraft as big and heavy as the B-36. And that would take some time. (The logistics alone of fueling a squadron of B-36s with 14,000+ gallons of gas each along with 132 x 500-lb or 72 x 1,000-lb bombs each seem daunting.)

And how long did it take for the SeeBees to knock out a massive airfield for the B-29s on a remote Coral Atoll?

If it was needed, it would have been done.

By the way, when the B-29s visited England, they aparently found a suitable airfield.

 

[Tkdog]

It seems reasonable to assume that, with some work, they could hit Scotland. Something the size of an airbase? First off, they would need to know where it was, that there was something there to hit. Knowing the weather along the way would help.

 

[msxyz]

Hmmm . . . I am beginning to see a potential one-upmanship battle between the B-36 and the V-1 and V-2. Could the V-2 reach (and hit) an air base in Scotland? Could an improved longer range V-1 reach (and hit) the same airbase? The implications are interesting.

Not the type of V2 which was historically fielded. There was however an advanced version with wings that made a controlled re-entry in the atmosphere, like a Shuttle, and which had a range of 750Km, because, instead of plunging down like a projectile or a ballistic missile, it used the wings to 'bounce' on the upper limit of the stratosphere. Germans also partially solved the issue of precision (which was very low in the standard V2, around 1% of range, both due to the limited precision of the gyroscopes and the primitive onboard controller) by supplementing the data from the inertial platform and pre-computed flight path with radio navigation, which allowed mid-course corrections.

To my knowledge, the sole successful test of this advanced V2 happened in February 1945, the problem being the wings that tended to separate from the body when the missile was re-entering the atmosphere at a speed of 1500m/s (close to 1 mile /sec, or around Mach 4.5). Such a missile, if fired from Norway, could possibly reach Scotland albeit its strategic value would have been low, just something to send a message 'we can hit you anywhere'.

 

[33k in the air]

And how long did it take for the SeeBees to knock out a massive airfield for the B-29s on a remote Coral Atoll?

The SeaBees were Navy. Interservice rivalry being what it was, I'm not sure the U.S. Army would have welcomed the Navy building its airbases in England.

If it was needed, it would have been done

Sure. But it takes time. The conditions in England were a different matter from the Pacific.

The logistics are interesting to contemplate. One B-36 is the equivalent of 6 to 12 B-17s in terms of fuel and bomb load required (given the shorter range would allow it to operate at its maximum bomb load).

By the way, when the B-29s visited England, they aparently found a suitable airfield.

Yes. But a tour is a different thing from regular operations.

(I'd post more specific details, but alas, my main computer, with all its resources on it, is in computer hospital awaiting surgery. And I'm sure if I go too much by memory I'd get a lot wrong.)

Ah well. Fun conversation anyway.

 

[GrauGeist]

Um...who built the Guam and Tinian bases for the USAAF?
The USN did...so yes, SeeBees transformed a pile of Coral into a massive air base in short order...

 

[Shortround6]

Field requirements for a B-29 operating at 100,000lbs are a lot different than one operating at 140,000lbs.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Field requirements for a B-29 operating at 100,000lbs are a lot different than one operating at 140,000lbs.

I doubt that would matter much, given that these fields would be built in the UK rather some isolated islands. The materials and labor force would be to hand already. As 33k has noted, the logistics of supplying a B-36 wing would be a bear.

 

[33k in the air]

Um...who built the Guam and Tinian bases for the USAAF?
The USN did...so yes, SeeBees transformed a pile of Coral into a massive air base in short order...

Sure. But a small island in the Pacific supplied by the hugely impressive USN logistics organization is a rather different thing from an airfield in green pasture in England, with supplies having to cross the contested Atlantic and then moving through ports with a huge amount of other material needed for other military operations as well as the large civilian population..

Field requirements for a B-29 operating at 100,000lbs are a lot different than one operating at 140,000lbs.

That's a great point.

 

[soulezoo]

Sure. But a small island in the Pacific supplied by the hugely impressive USN logistics organization is a rather different thing from an airfield in green pasture in England, with supplies having to cross the contested Atlantic and then moving through ports with a huge amount of other material needed for other military operations as well as the large civilian population..




That's a great point.

Guam is no small island.

Although I've heard that if the USAF puts on any more aircraft it could sink...

 

[Dimlee]

B-36 in flight sim videos.
B-36 videos

 

[33k in the air]

Guam is no small island.

Although I've heard that if the USAF puts on any more aircraft it could sink...

Sink? I thought it was capsize?

 

[soulezoo]

Sink? I thought it was capsize?

You are correct.

Hank Johnson Worries Guam Could "Capsize" After Marine Buildup - CBS News

 

[GrauGeist]

Sure. But a small island in the Pacific supplied by the hugely impressive USN logistics organization is a rather different thing from an airfield in green pasture in England, with supplies having to cross the contested Atlantic and then moving through ports with a huge amount of other material needed for other military operations as well as the large civilian population..

Not sure if you realize it or not, but with the arrival of the 8th and 9th AFs in England, the need for improved and additional airfields became a priority.
Aside from improving "grass" fields, there were bases built with concrete runways, taxiways and hardstands.
They were done in concert with the British Labor Force and the US Army.

As for getting a "huge amount of supplies" is concerned, I'd imagine building (or improving) bases for B-36 ops would be a piece of cake compared to the material and equipment required for Overlord

 

[33k in the air]

You are correct.

Hank Johnson Worries Guam Could "Capsize" After Marine Buildup - CBS News

Wait, I'm correct? That's not supposed to happen.

 

[33k in the air]

Not sure if you realize it or not, but with the arrival of the 8th and 9th AFs in England, the need for improved and additional airfields became a priority.
Aside from improving "grass" fields, there were bases built with concrete runways, taxiways and handstands.
They were done in concert with the British Labor Force and the US Army.

I wish my digital book references weren't on my non-functioning computer.

It's one thing to build airfields for B-17s and B-24s; the B-36 is a whole other beast --- it has 4.77 times the max. take-off weight of its diminutive cousins.

Consider the case of the Airbus A380 as an example. The size of that aircraft meant for an airport to accommodate it, the runways, taxiways, and passenger handling facilities all had to be upgraded.

As for getting a "huge amount of supplies" is concerned, I'd imagine building (or improving) bases for B-36 ops would be a piece of cake compared to the material and equipment required for Overlord

Overlord? What's that?

 

[wuzak]

Not the type of V2 which was historically fielded. There was however an advanced version with wings that made a controlled re-entry in the atmosphere, like a Shuttle, and which had a range of 750Km, because, instead of plunging down like a projectile or a ballistic missile, it used the wings to 'bounce' on the upper limit of the stratosphere.

Sounds like Sänger's concept for an America bomber

Silbervogel - Wikipedia

 

[special ed]

Don't forget, the first B-36 design used single wheel main gear which put too much load on most US runways requiring L/G redesign.

 

[Glider]

And how long did it take for the SeeBees to knock out a massive airfield for the B-29s on a remote Coral Atoll?

If it was needed, it would have been done.

By the way, when the B-29s visited England, they aparently found a suitable airfield.

I think the B29 was flown into N Ireland but will check that out

 

[Shortround6]

Gentlemen. See http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/B-29_Superfortress_SAC_-_19_April_1950.pdf

According chart on page 5 a B-29 at 100,000lbs needed about 3250ft to clear the ever present 50 ft trees

At 120,000lbs it needed 5,000ft and at 140,00lbs it needed about 7750ft. A plane doing a demonstration tour can land and take-off in a lot of places that would not support an operational mission even if not at Max gross weight.