B25 or B26, which was the better bomber?

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Hello. A few years ago, when I worked for Lockheed Martin, I saw a story the company published bragging on the B-26. It sounded like hype, so, during my lunchbreaks, I'd search the internet about it and read about the controversies. It also made me curious about how the B-26 compared with the B-25, which is what this forum is all about. You have made many good points in your discussions, one of which was that the two aircraft were optimized after their debut for very different roles. In addition to that, the two aircraft came into existence through two very different paths, and that set the stage for how some of the later events turned out. Most of the information on which I am basing the following summary comes from YouTube videos by folks who were there at the time, not professional authors (if any of you want to find those videos, let me know and I'll see if I can find them again). What follows will be more about the development and modification of the aircraft than other considerations. So lets summarize the B-25 first, then the B-26. Summaries tend to be oversimplifications, but they are useful in serving as mental scaffolds on which details can be assembled.

In the 1930s, North American Aviation was serious enough about breaking into the military aircraft business that they built a new plant in Inglewood, California. They just needed to win some business. They entered their NA-39 design as the XB-21 in a competition against the Douglas B-18. A prototype was built and flown in December 1936. The performance of the XB-21 was far superior to the B-18, but the XB-21 cost $122,000 per aircraft and the B-18 cost $64,000 per aircraft. Douglas won. There was another chance with an Army Air Corps spec (circular proposal 39-640) in March 1938 that resulted in the NA-40. A prototype was built and flew in January 1939. Problems were corrected in the NA-40B which flew in March 1939. Competition was the Dougles DB-7 (which won as the A-20 Havoc), Stearman, and Martin, and the customers were Britain and France. There was another chance in an Army Air Corps spec in March 1939 that resulted in the NA-62. There was no time for a prototype, so the NA-62 was ordered off the drawing boards as the B-25. North American's previous prototype experience meant that the initial NA-26 design was close to being operational. Following the first production units, there was a design issue that had to be fixed - the wing dihedral. The word coming back from Britain was that bombers needed defensive armament, so that was another change. But very early into the long production, there was a B-25B that was combat ready. It had low wing loading which gave it a short take off roll. That plus its early maturity caused Jimmy Doolittle to choose it as the aircraft for the Tokyo raid. Going into production, North American put a lot of forethought into modular construction which lowered production costs, made field maintenance easier, and made modifications quicker. Because of the prototypes The B-25 was known for being very adaptable, and the modular construction facilitated this. Later in its combat life, the B-25 was optimized for low level attack using a lot of guns which caused lots of skin fatigue and fixing this became a recurring matinenance task. Some key features to remember: cheap to build and maintain, mature early, adaptable, short takeoff roll, forgiving to fly.

In 1932, Martin produced the B-10 which won the Collier trophy, made all other bombers at the time obsolete, and set standards for bombers which lasted for a decade. The B-10 introduced an all metal monoplane airframe, enclosed cockpits, internal bomb bay, rotating gun turrets, retractable landing gear, and full engine cowlings. It was even faster than the fighters of its day. For Martin, accomplishing this carried a lot of prestige. 121 were built. Now return again to the aforementioned to Army Air Corps spec (circular proposal 39-640) in March 1939. Martin entered Model 179 designed by Peyton Magruder, optimized for speed and range and payload with short, thin wings, high wing loading, high takeoff speed, and a long takeoff roll. Was the design pushing the edge too much to recapture prestige? Were the Army Air Corps and Magruder thinking flying faster than a fighter was achievable? Like the B-25 it was ordered right off the drawing boards - no time for a prototype. But there were no previous prototypes anything like the B-26 - it was very much an unproven concept. The initial production units were sent to the Pacific. They were a challenge to fly and to maintain. Then the same word came to the B-26 as to the B-25 about needing defensive armament. It, as well as torpedo racks, were added, and weight went up 2.5 tons. Pilot training was a Tampa Bay, and there were lots of crashes ("One a Day in Tampa Bay"). The Group Operations Officer investigated. Besides the known mechanical problems with carburetors, distributors, and prop feathering, he determined that inexperienced maintenance crews were causing some of the crashes. He took a B-26 up and simulated at altitude, landing conditions with loss of an engine. Result was an inverted spin that took 4000 feet of altitude to recover. His conclusion was that, as the B-26 was then, a pilot could not successfully takeoff or land on one engine. Problems got corrected. Jimmy Doolittle thought the the B-26 had the makings of a good bomber and got assigned the task of resurrecting its reputation. Eventually the B-26 got sent to England. The first raid was low level and the target was in Holland, and 4 aircraft wre lost. In the second raid, 11 aircraft were launched (one of which aborted). This was also low level and the target was in Holland, but they overflew more land, were attacked by fighters, were attacked by flak, and none of them returned. The B-26 was grounded. The same Group Operations Officer previously mentioned was part of a committee whose charter was to determine what kind of tactics changes were needed for the B-26 to be successful in Europe. The interviewed lots of experienced pilots from the theater and eventually decided, for protection against fighters, on an 18 aircraft box consisting of three sets of two Vs of 3 aircraft each. They flew at 12,000 feet (limited by having no oxygen aboard), and, until the bomb run started, changing direction every 15 seconds to avoid flak. Initially, their targets were the 23 enemy airfields. When operated this way, they had very accurate bombing and found that the B-26 could take a lot of punishment and still get them home. Surprisingly, it ended up with the lowest loss rate in the ETO for all the aircraft types. Some key features to remember: expensive, difficult maturation, narrow envelope but accurate bombing, long takeoff roll, could take a lot of punishment.
 
Very interesting information ColdWarsChild, the B-25 and Magruder are my favorite medium bombers; knowing more about its history is very enriching. I have a B-25G in 1/48, waiting to be armed.
By the way, welcome to the forum and enjoy so much and so much information, so many and many good friends and connoisseurs of military aviation.

Saludos cordiales

Luis Carlos
SANCER
 
Good summation, Coldwarschild. The reason Martin won the contract for the B-26 was because it pushed the envelope. North American came in second with a more conservative approach. As history would prove, the demands of war favored the more conservative approach. Perhaps if Martin had been given another year to refine the B-26, its faults could have been overcome. Peyton Magruder acknowledged that the decision to go forward with the short wing once it was obvious that the R-2800 wasn't going to develop the promised power in time was a major blunder. As it was, a promising aircraft became saddled with a bad reputation, which it never shook, even after it proved to be a very durable medium. By 1943, the medium bomber concept was considered obsolete in the USAAF.
 

(my bold)
I'd like to ask: what time, and what was planed power of the R-2800 for that time?
 
Martin submitted multiple entries for the B-26 contract, powered by a variety of engines, including different configurations of the R-2600, the R-2800, and the R-3350, with different supercharger and turbocharger configurations. However, the Army chose the one with R-2800s with a single stage, two speed blower for the simple reason that it was production ready. The R-2800 was just entering production and the early A series -5 version was only rated at 1850 BHP takeoff. The original wing was optimized for high speed cruising, not lift, which resulted in a high stall speed, higher than the cruising speed of the previous generation of bombers. This meant that take-off and landing required more runway, and low speed flying was hazardous to inexperienced pilots. The B-26 program saw successive increases in weight from the initial design gross weight of 26,734 lbs to 28,600 lbs for the production B-26, 28,706 lbs for the B-26A, and 29,886 lbs for the first B-26Bs, entering service in May 1942. By April 1942 it was recognized that major changes were required to increase the safety and effectiveness of the B-26 program. The first stop gap change was to upgrade all further B-26Bs with the more powerful B series R-2800-41 and -43, developing 1920-2000 BHP for take-off. However, the remaining B-26B short wing production would receive modifications which pushed the normal gross weight to 31,165 lbs, higher than the initial design overload. The second, and more substantial change was the development of the longer wing, which first entered service in August 1942 with the B-26C-5 produced in Omaha, and later the B-26B-10 produced in Baltimore. By the time these fixes were fielded, the high accident rate and the delays caused by the safety investigations and production changes had given North American a huge lead in production, and done permanent damage to the Martin reputation. The low combat loss rate achieved in '44 and '45 came too late to save the B-26. By mid '43 it was considered obsolescent, and no further modifications were to be made except those which simplified production.
 
The real question is what version/s of the R-2800 did Martin want to use?
Which versions would have delayed production 6 months to a year?
What versions was P & W promising in 1939 and what delivery dates?
Adding two stage superchargers or turbos to the "A" series engine would have done nothing for take-off power and added several hundred pounds of weight to each engine. Would have done the same thing to the "B" series engines too, which does absolutely zero for the take-off/landing problem.
 

(my bold)
I appreciate the post. Still it is apparent to me that Marguder was pointing the finger in wrong direction (to P&W, that were developing and delivering engines of promissed power on schedule), instead of to the direction. Namely, on himself - going for thick, but small wing will be detrimental to low speed handling, while not conductive to the realy high speed. Mr. Marguder didn't see fit to install Fowler flaps on the B-26, a great thing to circumevent the limitations of a small wing.
The fuselage was designed to give enough of room for several crew memebers to go to and from, eg. the navigator and radio-man were to crawl back and man the machine guns. Thus the size and hence weight of fuselage (and of whole aircraft) went over-board.
BTW - the engine with 'only 1850 HP for take off' in 1941 is a world-beater when it is about take off power; the Do 217E was doing everything as well as the early B-26 on 2*300 HP less in same year. While being without low-speed vices.
 
It seems that Magruder was designing with an eye toward the future. The fuselage was designed with plans for pressurization in later versions. He hoped for engines with features that were in 1939 only in the planning stages. And he deliberately sacrificed low speed handling in a bid for more speed by reducing drag to a minimum. The symmetrical airfoil he employed was touted at the time to be the most drag efficient shape. This was used for the wing, the fuselage and the engine nacelles to the greatest extent possible. One could argue that he designed for the test. While North American upsized their NA-40 design to try to meet the requirements of the Air Corps Proposal 39-640, Martin started from scratch. Their design won because it met or exceeded more requirements than the NA-62. The Air Corps circular made no requirements for low speed handling, so Magruder didn't worry about it. The requirement called for a large bomb load, and specified that 30 x 100 lb bombs were one configuration that must be carried. Magruder copied the B-17 bomb bay, which had 20 stations, that could hold up to 4000 lbs of larger bombs, and then added a second bay to hold the rest of the required 100 pounders. This determined the width of the circular fuselage. North American elected to only partially meet the 3000 lb payload requirement, creating a narrower bomb bay that could hold 3 x 1000 lb bombs, but fewer smaller bombs than required. As designed, the Martin 179 was bigger, faster and could carry more bombs than the NA-62. Its drawbacks were the poor low speed performance, and a complicated production process which demanded special machines and more man hours than the simpler NA-62. The 179 relied on many unproven design features that had to be "debugged" before they would give the best performance, while the NA-62 relied on technology that was already proven. The development arc of the two models shows that North American's conservative approach paid off in that later developments were designed to improve performance in range and payload, whereas Martin's development dealt with trying to overcome the inherent low speed shortcomings of its design. Martin's changes led to a reduction in overall performance by reducing speed and maximum bomb load in a bid to improve the poor low speed performance. By the end of production, whatever performance lead the B-26 had originally had over the B-25 had been lost.
 
Thank you for the overwiev.

This is supposed to be the table of proposed variants for the Martin Model 172 (for the Circular Proposal 39-640),depending on type and variant of American big radial engines; the USAAC/AAF choice was bid No.6 (= powered by the only available production variant of the R-2800 for 1941):

 

I have been reading a book about the Avro Manchester.

It too had several weight increases through the design and prototype phase, but in their instance the wings also grew.

The really interesting thing is that the Manchester was a much larger aircraft than the B-26, had an all-up-weight around 18,000lb greater than the B-26 but still had the same take-off power - 2 x 1,850hp (and the added bonus that the Vulture was somewhat less reliable).
 
So Bid #5 was not picked because the engine was not available?
 
Among other reasons. BTW the engine in option 4 didn't exist either in 1939.
The turbo R-2600 flew in a few A-20s and gave nothing but trouble.
The two stage R-2600 flew for a few weeks in the prototype F6F in 1942. They swapped it for a 2 stage R-2800.
Actual number of flyable R-3350s in 1939/40 for options 12.13.14 and 15 were either slim or non-existent.

At the time of this proposal these were the engine options expected to be available 2-3 years in the future.
 
So, Wuzak, I suppose if Magruder had doubled the wing area, the Marauder could have done the work of a Manchester.
Interesting parallels: 202 Manchesters were built; 201 B-26 MA were built. Manchesters served with eight squadrons plus two others non operationally; B-26 MAs served operationally with six squadrons plus two groups non-operationally. Production of the Manchester was halted in November of 1941 in favor of the Lancaster; production of the B-26 MA was halted in November 1941 in favor of the B-26A, which was superceded in March 1942 by the B-26B.
 
The two stage engine that flew in the XF4U-1 in the end of May 1940 was rated at 1800hp for take-off,it was the X-2 model. At some point it was replaced by the X-4 engine with 1850hp for take-off. Production F4Us used 2000hp engines. The X-4 engine corresponds to the engine in option #6.
I don't know if the engine in option #4 ever flew in a test hack but it didn't fly in any service aircraft or prototype until the first flight of the XF6F-1 on June 26th 1942.
The proposals listed in the chart provided by Tomo were made in the end of June 1939.
First flight of an R-2800 with any type of supercharger was at the end of July 1939.
On Aug 10th, 1939 the Army ordered 201 B-26 bombers. They were taking quite a gamble on the R-2800 as it was. Basing a design on engines that were even further from flight status and more complicated was an even bigger gamble. One that the Army was apparently not willing to take.
First flight of a B-26 was November 25, 1940 and at this point there 1131 aircraft on order.
 
This is fascinating stuff. The more you dig, the more you realize that the B-25 was the fall back option if the B-26 failed. I wouldn't say that the B-26 was a failure, but, the fact that the B-25 was available when the early B-26 ran into difficulties made the decision to go ahead with the B-25 a wise one in retrospect. It had never occurred to me, but the Army went with NAA's NA-62 bid that used the R-2600 for the same reason that Martin was told to use the R2800-5, because it would be available in sufficient quantity to ensure production deadlines.
 
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