Battle of Bi-Planes

[Clayton Magnet]

Gloster Gladiator/Sea Gladiator's faced Fiat CR-42's over the Mediterranean, and both seemed to give as good as they got. But are there any reports of the Italian fighters engaging I-15/I-153's on the eastern front?
As far as I can tell,(am I missing any?) the best "on paper" bi-plane fighters to still remain in service at the start of the second world war would be;
- Gladiator/Sea Gladiator
- CR.42
- I-153
- F3F
Which would you choose?

 

[GrauGeist]

The Curtiss Model 68 Hawk of the Chinese Air Force clashed with the Imperial Japanese Army's Kawasaki KI-10.
The Polikarpov I-15 was also used by the Chinese against Japanese as well as serving in the Spanish Civil war with the Republicans and saw action against the Nationalist's Fiat CR.32.
Another biplane that served in the Spanish Civil war, was the Heinkel He51, which engaged enemy types like the Nieuport NiD 52, Breguet 19, Potez 54 and the Polikarpov I-15.

 

[rednev]

Gloster Gladiator/Sea Gladiator's faced Fiat CR-42's over the Mediterranean, and both seemed to give as good as they got. But are there any reports of the Italian fighters engaging I-15/I-153's on the eastern front?
As far as I can tell,(am I missing any?) the best "on paper" bi-plane fighters to still remain in service at the start of the second world war would be;
- Gladiator/Sea Gladiator
- CR.42
- I-153
- F3F
Which would you choose?

i would add the avia b534 to the list
scored a kill as late as september 44

 

[Timppa]

I-153 hands down. Although slightly inferior to Gladiator in sustained turn, it had much better better speed and climb.
Not to mention pilot armor and self-sealing tanks, which Gladiator sorely lacked.

20 Gladiators were part of the useless junk British sold to Finland in Winter War. 173,000 pounds sterling for 20 planes.
Greedy bastards.

 

[Clayton Magnet]

I-153 hands down over the CR.42 as well? there seems to be little to choose between the two regarding speed, despite the fact the Polikarpov had retractable gear. And the Fiat was known to be "...brilliantly maneuverable, an acrobatic gem..." according to Eric Brown.

 

[Elmas]

From "They gave me a Seafire" Cap. 7 – Cmdr R. "Mike" Crosley, pag. 42

"There were still two Gladiators at Yeovilton. There was also a captured Italian CR 42. Wiggy and our CO, Rodney Carver, had a doghfight over the airfield and the CR won. That was rather glossed over later, and no one would admit it; but it was true."

 

[Shortround6]

Some of these are stronger in one area than another, like most planes.
And for actual combat such details as if the plane was fitted with controllable pitch propeller might be important.
The CR 42, the I-153 and F3F were at least fitted with two pitch props. How easy they were to adjust between the limits in flight I don't know. One or more of them may have had constant speed propellers would would help climb and acceleration out of turns. A more efficient use of engine power/thrust than the fixed pitch prop planes.

 

[Clayton Magnet]

I believe the Gladiators in RAF/FAA service were fitted with constant speed props at some point, but I may be mistaken. Or perhaps they were just adjustable pitch

 

[Clayton Magnet]

from Wikipedia....

That's just one field modified aircraft, but I seem to remember reading that the remaining aircraft were refitted with the new props.

 

[Shortround6]

I could be wrong but most Gladiators used either the two blade fixed pitch Watts wood propeller or the 3 blade fixed pitch Fairey Reed propeller.

A few Gladiators in the field were fitted with engines from Blenheims and kept the Blenheim two pitch propellers.

 

[Shortround6]

The Blenheim MK IVs were fitted with two pitch propellers, at least in 1939 when the manual was first written. MK Vs got constant speed. I don't know if/when MK IVs got constant speed.

 

[Tea Brewer]

Henschel Hs 123. Not an out and out fighter, but an excellent close support dive bomber. The Fieseler Fi 167 saw action in the Balkans in the Croatian air force, I believe, and was just about the best STOL combat aeroplane of WW2.

From Wikipedia:
The Fi 167's short-field landing and load-carrying abilities made it ideal for transporting ammunition and other supplies to besieged Croatian Army garrisons, between their arrival in September 1944 and the end of the War.

During one such mission, near Sisak on 10 October 1944, an Fi 167 of the Air Force of the Independent State of Croatia was attacked by five North American Mustang Mk IIIs of No. 213 Squadron RAF. The crew of the Fieseler had the distinction of shooting down one of the Mustangs before itself being shot down—possibly one of the last biplane "kills" of the war.

 

[stearman66]

No ones mentioned the Fairy Swordfish which was responsible for sinking the Bismark if my memory serves me right.

 

[Elmas]

CR 42 had a constant speed propeller FIAT 3D,41-1, identical to that of G 50.

(source of the photo: e-bay)

 

[Clayton Magnet]

Looks like a Hamilton Standard. Did they produce them under licence?

 

[Tea Brewer]

No ones mentioned the Fairy Swordfish which was responsible for sinking the Bismark if my memory serves me right.

And the Battle of Taranto that reportedly inspired the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbour.

 

[Clayton Magnet]

Best biplane fighters was the original idea for the thread. But the Swordfish would certainly be on list of greatest biplanes to see service

 

[GrauGeist]

.

Looks like a Hamilton Standard. Did they produce them under licence?

yes, as Fiat-Hamilton

 

[Vincenzo]

This would be of interest
Håkans Aviation page - Biplane Fighter Aces from the Second World War

 

[pinehilljoe]

I have to dig it up where i read it, but we're Hawker Furys used in the Sudan and liberation of Ethiopia?