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Carrier qualifications = the 'exam' the plane had to pass in order to be accepted for carrier use. (Sorry if this is redundantOne crew or pilot was even killed....during the carrier qualifications(?)!
Some particulars could help a decision, but since Judy seems to be nobody's favourite, I'll do the allied planes from the poll.
I believe that it still had a greater range, but I'll need to check that.Range:
Underwing bombs negate any combat range advantage Firefly could have in clean configuration - this is a draw.
AgreedGun armament: Strafing
Firefly has advantage for a 'direct' attack, or strafing.
Not correct, the SB2C-1 did not have rockets. It began deliveries to squadrons Dec '42, becoming operational summer '43. (Firefly delivered Mar '43, operational Sept '43)Bomb rocket armament:
Firefly can carry bombs rockets in the same time, while Firefly can't. Advantage SB2C.
Suitability for the bomber's task:
Firefly is not a dive bomber, so pin-point attacks are a tough issue for it. Advantage SB2C.
A drawback of the higher perfomance V or inline engines.Survivability vs. AAA:
The main difference is engine type: air-cooled is better then liquid-cooled here. Advantage SB2C.
Firefly 286 mph bomb- loaded, 316 unladen while the SB2D is 280 mphSpeed:
Firefly is faster without bombs. Now since SB2D carries bombs in the bomb bay (Firefly has them attached under wings), the speed is just about equal. So Firefly has the advantage only in way home - a minor advantage in my eyes.
I believe that the first SB2C-1 version of the Helldiver only had a single (rear) MG for defence, can anyone confirm that?Survivability vs. fighters:
Firefly would drop stores and then try to force a turning fight, in what it excelled.
The lack of effective rear guns is obvious for it. Since we talk about bombers, SB2C has the advantage, because of rear guns. Small advantage SB2C.
SB2C would have to rely on twin 0.30 LMGs to hit the attacker; perhaps enough for Zero Oscar, but not against anything more capable.
Firefly has one 'sweet spot', the cooling system of the engine.
Both planes are much slower then fighter opposition.
Both planes need air superiority to operate, so this is a draw.
Electronic equipment:
Draw.
Does this mean that better performing inlines had drawback (beacouse of cooling system), or that inlines are more powerful then radials?A drawback of the higher perfomance V or inline engines.
Fact or opinion?Firefly had a superior ASV radar
How about this:
Firefly was bombing nothing until June 1944, so the type's war performance in 1943 is equal to the P-38M's (night fighter) achievement in WW2, ie. equal to zero. BY that time, SB2C made it's mark in the Pacific war, despite the shortcomings, and the -3 was being delivered. Therefore, the dash 3 needs to be compared with Firefly, not dash 1.
Could you please further elaborate this:
Does this mean that better performing inlines had a drawback (because of cooling system),
Radar - Fact or opinion?
As for the tail guns, it was either single .50 cal, or twin .30 cal. ( from Squadron Signal - SB2C in action).
As I mentioned earlier, the criteria was only on CAPABILITY, not War Record. So the Japanese aircraft can be compared on it's abilities, despite the fact that after mid-1943 the Japanese had virtually no successful carrier operations, as in the war they were getting their *** kicked.
Suppose the Allies had lost the battle of Midway etc etc and the Japanese had the upper hand in the Pacific? Things might be quite a bit different.
Someone could start a later 1944 poll comparing the Firefly mk IV to the SB2C-4, I suppose.
Since MkIV was available from 1945 on, he can't even be on that poll.
...
Well, I know that the Firefly had a very good radar system, for bombing and poor-weather operations. (As parsifal has already mentioned)
Since no facts about Firefly making kills/hits while using the radar are posted, I'll say it's a opinion that radar set was great.
I couldn't find any record at all of radar installed on the 1943 SB2C-1 version, Lucky does your book mention this?
Does it say exactly what the SB2C-1 had?
.50 cal was mounted on 1st two series, while from series III on the twin .30 was carried. The change was made in 1943.
Since MkIV was available from 1945 on, he can't even be on that poll.
Well, I know that the Firefly had a very good radar system, for bombing and poor-weather operations. (As parsifal has already mentioned)
I couldn't find any record at all of radar installed on the 1943 SB2C-1 version, Lucky does your book mention this?
Since no facts about Firefly making kills/hits while using the radar are posted, I'll say it's a opinion that radar set was great.
thanks for clearing that up. 8)Does it say exactly what the SB2C-1 had?
.50 cal was mounted on 1st two series, while from series III on the twin .30 was carried. The change was made in 1943.
With restrictions orders what can and can not be valid for this thread, one could get the idea that poll favors certain aircraft.
The criteria: A dive-capable carrier bomber, 2-seater, available for carrier operations in mid-1943
"Best" means ONLY most capable, versatile, survivability, handling, firepower, speed etc.
It does not take into account reputation, career longevity, prestige, success in combat etc.
Throw the Helldivers over the side right away (it only saves time) and check the other two planes again.
Reference for that? [= Firefly MkIV able only from 1945]
Dude, you proposed that...Anyways, what might or might be available in 1944 or 1945 is irrelevant for the purpose of this poll
Don't worry, I've understood that all right.[about skewing the poll 'rules' to favor a particular plane]
No, it's really quite simple, I don't know how anyone could misunderstand it.
Okay, I'll try spell it out so there is no confusion.
You are the CAG chief (or Captain whatever) on an Allied aircraft carrier, on May 1, 1943
You have just spent a month or so testing out a squadron of the two newest dive-capable Allied carrier bombers, the Helldiver the Firefly. By an amazing set of circumstances, you also have a captured squadron of Japanese D4Y1 "Judys"
None of these planes has been in combat, so there is no war record or anything.
Your orders are now to choose a squadron of the best of these 3 aircraft to take aboard, to set out for operations. (but have a couple of months to train pilots on it of course....)
Make sense now?
When I put up the poll I didn't know that the Helldiver was such a problem aircraft in it's first year.Learned something new.
I wonder why so many people chose the Helldiver anyways?
I also wonder, how many battles were there where the Dauntles or Helldiver was intercepted by Zeros? How big a handicap was it for the Dauntless, which was ~80 mph slower? Was speed the main factor, or manouverability?
Signal Squadron - Firefly in action.
Now isn't it funny that I cite my references, while you, freebird, avoid the same when asked time and again. So until you provide your sources about the wuderwaffe, I'll follow you example.
Firefly was designed, built and used as a true multi role aircraft, which has both advantages and disadvantagers as a concept.
Nearly all the day equipped fireflies were equipped with an advanced ASV radar, to allow blind bombing.
Some hundreds of the type were equipped with AI MKX airborne radar for night fighting, and the type remained the RNs principal night fighter for some years after the war.
Dude, you proposed that...
Don't worry, I've understood that all right.
No confusion at all.
I'll choose SB2C, since those are a) operational (= Firefly falls off) and b) Judy has engine survivabilty issues on that May 1, 1943.
So after a few months, your pilots would be trained and the squadron could become "operational"freebird said:( have a couple of months to train pilots on it of course....)
Too bad we cant go back and change our choices. Lots of great info comes out and youre stuck with what you "thought" was the best.
When I put up the poll I didn't know that the Helldiver was such a problem aircraft in it's first year.Learned something new.
I wonder why so many people chose the Helldiver anyways?
I also wonder, how many battles were there where the Dauntles or Helldiver was intercepted by Zeros? How big a handicap was it for the Dauntless, which was ~80 mph slower? Was speed the main factor, or manouverability?
I also wonder, how many battles were there where the Dauntles or Helldiver was intercepted by Zeros? How big a handicap was it for the Dauntless, which was ~80 mph slower? Was speed the main factor, or manouverability?